Aspies For Freedom

I don't know anything about that, but I'm very wary of the word 'sexism'. It could well be that women are less genetically predisposed to Aspergers. That is not any kind of supremacy or propaganda, just a possibility. It's not better or worse, simply different.

I don't buy that. Most of those on the list didn't have the diagnoses, sp there is no fact that proves they had asperger. It seems much like speculations... and what does it prove? It reminds me of some people who are active in the gay community who are convinced that a lot of famous people through history were homosexuals (Jesus, for exampel) without having any real evidence on that.

What about musicians? There are so many genuinely eccentric ones that I'm surprised not to see any candidates listed yet. Anyway, there's three of them, in quite different styles of music, who I, someone with the condition, would consider prime candidates. Also, I have one actress who may imbue her character with the Asperger's many have supposed that the latter has.

Prince:

That's right, Prince. I know he's not female, but his gender identity has always been pretty ambiguous, although his well-known relationships with women make me skeptical of him being in any non-heterosexual category other than bisexuality. Anyway, he is world-famous for his general "weirdness," worshiped and lampooned in equal measure for over a quarter-century (just look at those "Saturday Night Live" skits over the last couple years). He's heavily introverted, has a complex internal logic involving pacifism and his personal fascinations with certain colors and objects, especially purple, of course; all this is in his addition to his dealing so often with burning but often repressed sexual desire which he himself described as stemming from a tendency to write songs as "sexual fantasies." He clearly has exceptional talent and a genuine musical genius with a true mastery of myriad styles, ranging from funk to urban R&B to rock to pop. His social eccentricities have been legend, and if you need any further proof of this, consider, for instance, that when he was younger, in the 1970s, he once locked himself in his room for several months (with an attached bathroom along with his food supply, I hope) and spent that time writing songs, in complete isolation for the outside world.

Avril Lavigne:

Talk about inappropriate behavior with no concern for social registers! Lavigne is renowned for her outbursts and odd statements in the media, and is frequently mocked as such. She had a very revealing interview with Craig Ferguson recently, part of his terrific initiative to actually interview musical guests (which too many talk show hosts usually forego these days), in which she mentioned taking an inward posture (I'm sure you know what I'm talking about) in times when she feels stressed out. She has long had a fascination with punk music and other genres of alternative rock, but has been frustrated with her seeming inability to grasp the spontaneous, emotional qualities that give such music its emotional power. Indeed, this failure has given her much of the flak she receives from music critics. For a final case in point, take one episode of "Saturday Night Live" in which she appeared as the musical guest (not as an impersonation, as she has most often figured). In the traditional hugging round at the end, she remained quite aloof from the proceedings, politely accepting hugs but never quite pro-actively seeking them out. At that moment, I realized that I genuinely understand her, or at least think I do.

Mary Lynn Rajskub:

It's the actress, not the character! I think that all of the speculation which you may have heard of concerning her Rajskub's "24" character Chloe O'Brien's having Asperger's Syndrome, actually stems from the fact that Rajskub imprints, as many actors do, her own personality onto her characters. In other words, if another actress played Chloe, she might have more affect or what-have-you and seem less Aspie. I don't know whether the show's co-creator Joel Surnow ever intended for Chloe to have Asperger's when he wrote her into the show, but he and fellow creator Robert Cochran had the good sense to know that these eccentricities are part of the character's appeal. For starters, talking about social skill issues, Rajskub got involved in quite a few extracurriculars but was nonetheless quite unpopular in high school, and in college had a habit (discussed on Conan O'Brien's show) of going out with men she wasn't really interested in, partly due to a difficulty saying no. This happened quite a bit, since she was considered quite attractive then as now, and she would often end up breaking up by shouting "I'm not feeling it" to her boyfriend in a public place. Upon receiving the occasional four-page letter from the ex explaining how they should still be together, she would reply with an eighty-page one including segments of a screenplay she was working on! Obviously, she has a lot of difficulty saying no in an appropriate fashion. Her therapist may be helping her somewhat, though I question this doctor's decision to take Mary Lynn to the former's Playboy photo shoot just as much as Mary Lynn's willingness to discuss her own personal experience on that occasion. In any case, every time I have seen her interviewed, she has appeared quite physically awkward. Her general reservedness has also been well-established, and her statements have included such bizarre matters as a joke resolution to be arrested for indecent exposure as a New Years' resolution. Her general mien has engendered her to be sincerely labeled "***" by other people she has encountered, including an audience member at a stand-up comedy show where she appeared. Her behavior and discussion have been manifested so consistently that her one-time suggestion that it's "all an act" does not hold water; this has been going on long enough and often enough to conclude that this is how she is. Here's some more statements indicative of the characteristics of Asperger's and its effect on those diagnosed, coming from the lady herself:

"I have to paint at least two times a week, and there's not enough time in the day to do everything."

"Well, I started by doing comedy, and my comedy was sort of based on how comfortable I was with myself. I would be on stage, alone, and the jokes where people would laugh were coming out of my genuine uncomfortableness with myself. So, what makes me happy is that I feel like was able to express something unique to me that other people can relate to. It makes me happy to be able to do that. It's fun to take something that you're sort of scared of and turn it into something actually very powerful."

"I personally have a background of many days on end of confusion, understimulation, overstimulation, and uncomfortableness with the world around me."

Mariah Carey:

Yes, I do think that Asperger's is Mariah's problem. It's also likely a part of her strength. What happened in 2001 was not a breakdown from completely normal behavior but rather a pattern of increasingly strange behavior that led to a relapse into hardcore Asperger's Syndrome. The mental (and physical, after all the two are always connected) exhaustion, the plate-throwing tantrum at the hotel, the desperate messages on her web site--all classic Asperger's behavior if you know how to recognize it. Since most people don't, her frequent rationales of growing up multiracial (a "handicapped childhood," as she once put it) and dealing with low blood sugar satisfy many as to explanations for her behavior. However, if you look under the surface, you will find an enormous body of evidence suggesting Mariah's having some form of AS.

1) There [is[/i] a precedent for neurological disorders in her family, since her biological brother has cerebral palsy
2) When she was growing up, instead of responding to hostility towards multiracial people by working hard to make friends at school, she retreated to her home and avoided social interaction, with only an occasional break to jam with others who shared her interest in music, and even that only happening in her teen years; I myself remember that my only real friends in high school were those in my scholastic bowl team and drama club. Her sister Allison, on the other hand, was quite the social butterfly and got beat up and involved in drug abuse and prostitution for her trouble; social skills aren't always what they're cracked up to be, and Mariah's difficulties with them may have protected her in this case. Mariah would watch large amounts of television, practice scales for hours on end, and viewed the radio as a comforting refuge she could turn in hours of need, almost as much as her strong Christian beliefs, if not regular church attendance, since it was very hard to find congregations accepting of her mixed family.
3) She manifested her exceptional, almost superhuman vocal and songwriting talent (she co-writes much of her material, lyrics, music, and all) at an early age, displaying pitch perfection at the age of two. In addition, she needs to have song ideas transcribed because they come to her so fast that, as she revealed in her 2003 Larry King interview, she can't even write them down properly. A musical genius if ever there was one.
4) Besides being relatively isolated from friendships in school and failing to communicate with people about her dreams of musical stardom in a way that didn't make her seem odd and delusional, she perseverated on music so much that the obsession hampered her ability to perform academically; she simply could not concentrate on her schoolwork and always seemed unfocused and "somewhere else" in school, which along with her absenteeism (due to said Manhattan jam sessions), hampered her academic performance enough to indicate that her exit from high school at seventeen was most likely a withdrawal rather than an early graduation.
5) She was quite unconcerned with her appearance to others as a child, and gained a better but still ersatz image during 500 hours of beauty school and hair salon apprenticeship, which was threatened as a career by her habit of singing at work rather than chatting up customers, lending her the nickname "Echo." Around 1993, her handlers, including husband and Sony Records executive Tommy Mottola, gave her a more conventional hair and look, but she has never had astute fashion sense, as the many fashion critics of our society know so well. She essentially wears whatever she pleases, valuing personal qualities such as not being tight around the mid-section, which she claims has a serious impact on her vocals.
6) She has a tendency to "give people the wrong impression" and be "a flirt," without really intending to, having little concept of entering and exiting relationships carefully. She headed somewhat naïvely into her relationship with Tommy, failing to anticipate the corporate jealousy she would endure and not taking some of the cues that might have alerted her to the fact that Tommy treated her like a child, perhaps because of her sometimes immature and inappropriate behavior. Speaking of which, have you ever watched her on camera? Who is she making eye contact with? It is not always very clear, and this has perhaps led to awkward outcomes for many relationships. The very nature of love itself confuses her, and despite having been in several relationships, she insisted in said Larry King interview that she hasn't "ever really been in love." It's a handy word to put in a song and a key concept of popular music lyrics, but she expressed confusion over the basic nature of this complex, intuitive, and social emotion.
7) Mariah has had difficulties in the past in communicating with people, even in work settings. Although some behavioral quirks may have been ironed out by the charm-school-style work training that served as kind of therapy for the previously concert-shy entertainer, she still had trouble making her needs and feelings understood to her superiors at Columbia and Virgin Records. She was a wallflower at the party at which she was discovered, leading to the oft-cited "Cinderella story" of her discovery by Tommy through Brenda K. Starr, the entertainer who helped get her discover in her quest to socialize Mariah by dragging the latter to parties. Part of the reason she had her problems in 2001 was that she had never been good at conveying her wishes about choices for album singles, and more importantly her need for an occasional break from work, to her label and publicist. Many other entertainers face the pressures that led drove to her exhaustion, either resolve the issues successfully or devolve into substance abuse. Mariah did neither, and her hospitalization in a mental ward should be a sobering reminder of how this case was more than ordinary fatigue. It may have been preventable had she been able to make her needs and problems known to people. She might have done well to be more assertive, and perhaps not reject the lawsuit options that might have been available to her in compensation for her troubles.
8 ) She is also hypersensitive. Early in her career, she was actually spooked by the crowd noise at her first live concert, and only gradually got accustomed to louder sounds, as I myself have in spite of my Asperger's. She still cannot tolerate intense smells; hence, her efforts to design an extremely subtle fragrance for her Automatic Princess line. Tactile sensations are also important to her, as she prefers certain fabrics and places a lot of emphasis on comfortableness in her apparel choices.

When she was sent to the mental hospital, she soon got referred to a therapist, with whom she worked out some strategies for dealing with people that sound very Asperger's-oriented to me. First of all, she needs to learn to set boundaries and assert herself more when necessary, and get better at saying no. Second, she needs to arrange with employers, and has done so in actual contracts for what you and I would call the accommodation of having her "own private time and space," reducing the necessary amount of social negotiation to achieve such a thing, haggling that other artists could more easily conduct on a case-by-case basis. Finally, she works to set up a good schedule with her employers that gives her time to decompress and time to do her best. All in all, she needed to do some self-advocacy. Fortunately for her, she has reached a level of prestige in her industry that allows her to request these things, and I hope I someday reach that point in whatever field I choose to enter (I'm young, you see). In any case, these approaches have worked well, and she has not only made a spectacular career comeback but is also dealing better than ever with some aspects of her personality that may stem from Asperger's. As a fan and possible fellow Aspie, I wish her the best. Was she eventually diagnosed with the condition by this therapist? Perhaps only two people really know.


It's not really any of our business whether any of these four people, or any other celebrity, is diagnosed with Asperger's; it ought to be between patient and psychiatrist or therapist, unless both parties agree that revealing the diagnosis is the right thing to do. One thing's for sure, we could use a celebrity self-advocate, and it would help immeasurably in increasing people's understanding and acceptance of the condition if a superstar was honest and forthright with people about their Asperger's, making us all accept it as a part of who that celebrity is and perhaps as much a factor in his or her talents as it is in his or her shortcomings. Celebrity publicists sometimes try to explain away all sorts of health perturbations in celebrities, fostering the confusion that fuels tabloid headlines and other media circuses; as recovered alcoholic talk show host Craig Ferguson recently pointed out about Britney Spears' recent troubles, when a celebrity has an issue, they need help and not skepticism or denial from people whose jobs depend on the star, because unless the entertainer's physical and mental health can be attended to, there is no entertainment coming from them. It's that simple, and the luxury rehabs, exploitative talk shows, and what have you are not the answer. The more people exploit or deny celebrities' problems, the more it encourages them to be in denial, and sometimes those problems are not as simple as Dr. Drew Pinsky's alleged diagnosis of "Narcisstic Personality Disorder," itself a lightning rod for misdiagnoses of a cornucopia of other mental health conditions, including Asperger's Syndrome. Entertainment may set some fashions for neurotypical society, but it is also an environment in which different and eccentric people can flourish and find a way of making their identity accepted, and it would be a shame if publicists would support the idea that celebrities couldn't possibly have my condition because of its social skill aspects. I would love to hear your feedback about my ideas.

What I've read about the Austrian political theorist and philosopher of science Karl Popper make me think he was an Aspie. The British philosopher Bryan Magee has a very good description of who Popper was as a person in his memoir The Confessions of a Philosopher and Magee describes Popper as reclusive, stubborn, a bit eccentric, not all that good with proper social courtesies, and always rambled on about topics he was interested in even if the other person wanted to talk about something else.

i heard that the creator of microsoft, Bill Gates, has Asperger, is it true?

I don't know if this is true or not, but apparently Hitler might of been aspie.

LC

I believe he was... I've seen very compelling analysis. After all, Aspergers really is "Autistic Psychopathy" a lack of emotions or apathy, of an autistic background.

LC

logicalconclusion Wrote:
After all, Aspergers really is "Autistic Psychopathy" a lack of emotions or apathy, of an autistic background.


So I can add "aspies lack emotions" to the growing list of offensive statements you've made.

You could save yourself the offense and go and read Hans Aspergers work, Get off my back zakkie. A difference of opinion is one thing, hounding someone is another.

LC

On some levels, yes.. at the least a disability to recognize and communicate them...and in a deeper sense yes, aspies have a lower emotive range in many cases.

LC

Then go ahead and be offended with reality, it means very little to me at this point how you choose to be offended.

Maybe instead of bitching about my view of topics, you should actually go look up the subject, you might learn something instead of sitting there acting like a 5 year old with a grudge. How angry you must be. Angry and just plain sad.

LC

tenaciouscj, Hmmm, thats not a bad take either... I was just looking at the diagnosis of Michael Fitzgerald. This is it here

Michael Fitzgerald, an expert in autism spectrum disorders, concludes that Hitler suffered from, and met all the criteria of Asperger's Syndrome as documented by Hans Asperger.[7] As evidence of Asperger's Fitzgerald cites Hitler's poor sleep patterns, food fads, dislike of physical contact, inability to forge genuine friendships, and an emptiness in his human relations. His conversations in the Men’s Home in Vienna were really harangues and invited no reciprocity, for which he lacked this capacity. In Munich he was distant, self-contained, withdrawn and without friends. His comrades noted that he had no humanitarian feelings. He was obsessive and rarely made good or interesting company, except in the eyes of those who shared his obsessions or those in awe of, or dependent on him. He was single minded and inflexible. He spent a great deal of time with Albert Speer, examining architectural plans, and this remained a major focus of his life throughout. His other major interest was in the music of Wagner. His greatest interest, clearly, was in control over people and power over people.[8]

Fitzgerald further states that Hitler was an ideologue with unshakable convictions, and had a bed compulsion, which demands that the bed be made in a particular way with the quilt folded according to a prescribed pattern and that a man must make the bed before he could go to sleep. He did not use language for the purpose of interaction with others, but only for the purpose of dominating others. He endlessly engaged in long-winded and pedantic speeches, with 'illogical arguments full of crude comparisons and cheap allusions.’[9] He was unable to carry on a normal conversation or discussion with people. Even if only one other person was present, he had to do all the talking. His manner of speech soon loses any conversational qualities it might have had and takes on all the characteristics of a lecture that may easily develop into a tirade. He simply forgets his companions and behaves as though he were addressing a multitude, repeating the same stories over and over again in exactly the same form, almost as though he had memorised them. After the First World War ‘his awkward mannerisms’ were noted. At that time he wore his gangster hat and trenchcoat over his dinner jacket, touting a pistol and carrying as usual his dog whip, he cut a bizarre figure in the salons of Munich’s upper-crust. But his very eccentricity of dress and exaggerated mannerisms… saw him lionized by condescending hosts and fellow guests. In his early days he wore the Bavarian costume. His clothes were not clean with his mouth brown full of brown, rotted teeth and his long fingernails he presented a rather grotesque figure. His gait was a very lady-like walk. Dainty little steps. Every few steps he cocked his right shoulder nervously, his left leg snapping up as he did so. He also had a tic in his face that caused the corner of his lips to curl upwards. People found his look ‘staring and dead.’

Fitzgerald claims, therefore, that Adolf Hitler meets the criteria for autistic psychopathy described by Hans Asperger and was not schizophrenic. [10]

So yeah, I don't know... Its still a very interesting topic in any case.

LC

Popper is your favorite too?

Not only his epistemology and philosophy of science excellent, but so is his political philosophy. His famous work The Open Society And It's Enemies is what turned me away from Marxism.

Hitler had way too much charisma and ability to charm to have been an Aspie. I'd guess he had Narcissistic Personality Disorder with OCD a bit of megalomania thrown in.