Aspies For Freedom

Vespers Wrote:

I have always been proud that Stonewall Jackson and Lovecraft were probably aspies--also Perceval, from the Grail stories, and Cato the Younger.

Prince John, George V's youngest son, kept away as "feeble-minded," not only acted like a person who could have had some sort of autistic spectrum disorder, but he was also epileptic.

Women and people who aren't white: Emily Dickinson, possibly Emily Bronte, possibly Hildegard of Bingen. Thelonius Monk. Li Guang (Chinese general from the Han dynasty).

I think Himmler may have been an aspie as well. Also Kevin Strom, founder of the American white-supremnacist group National Vanguard, a splinter group of the National Alliance. He is described as eccentric (he only eats one food at a time and fills his house with stacks of hoarded paper), an overcontrolling husband, and intelligent, especially with computers and electronics--and one of his children was autistic. (So much for making us look good :/--also, so much for "racial purity;" modern neo-Nazis despise autism)

None of these are official, but if anyone wants, I could follow up with supporting details about these people. (The Kevin Strom information is from a Southern Poverty Law article on him titled "The Wannabe.")

Epilepsy is associated with neurological cell loss in the amygdala, as is autism. Perhaps that's why he exhibited similar behaviours?

This probably means nothing to most of you and is my speculation but I believe the character DOC MARTIN (ITV1) played by Martin Clunes is meant to have Asperger Autism. I think this because of the characters behaviour and people refering to him as 'different'. I like that character.

theosoph Wrote:

Tiger of Malaysia Wrote:

How is her list different from this one, http://www.white-history.com/hwr58.htm?

The same reason why this is a different one
http://afroamhistory.about.com/od/people/

They are not the same.  For one thing the list of scientists and inventors is nowhere near as long on the African American history page.  The white history page really does come from a supremacist group and makes it seem that the white race is superior.  Not so with the AM page.

I'm actually starting to see what you are getting at though.  If Lili had listed more entertainers, artists and other people who've accomlished things besides becoming a famous genius, I would have less problems with it.

Why doesn't Lili include George Washington Carver in her list? I saw a show on The History Channel about him and he seemed very Aspie to me.  I shouldn't encourage her but this is another reason I don't like her list, only white people.
[/quote]

So whenever there's a black history page, it's in good taste, but whenever there's a white history page, it's automatically considered to be supremacist?

Sorry but you can't have it both ways.  Either both sites are supremacist, or neither site is supremacist.

I think Beck Hansen is an Aspie...
- He says he's bad at social situations.
- He's admitted to only having like two girlfriends in his life.
- He's obsessed with music (he plays like 15 instruments).
- He's just really weird in general.
- He talks like a lot of Aspies do (monotonous, prone to mumbling).
- Look at the way he reacts to the phone ringing in the video below!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSFhZkSYuj4

Diagnosing the dead is a legitimate and socio-culturally valuable pursuit (it's called applied psychology) in that all people of prominence -- current or historical -- are presumed to be "normal" (i.e. NT, heterosexual, etc.) unless that presumption is challenged. The challenge is important because we must challenge the Hegemony of Normalcy that marginalizes all of us horrible socially unacceptable "non-normals."

Not every speculation is necessarily valid or supportable, but speculation is always the first step toward identifying and reclaiming our own.

"Im just wanting to know the actual Truth rather than what you or anyone else may want.'

Silencing speculation does not guarantee the truth, it merely guarantees that the presumption of NeuroTypicality will be treated as the "Truth."

"This reminds me of way back in the early to mid 90s when there was wild speculation about historical figures being gay-or possibly being gay."

Names, please, of people who were objects of "wild" speculation.

The fact is that gay people have been systematically "invisiblized" throughout history for a variety of reasons, primarily because A) there was no particular understanding of what being gay even meant, and B) because there was stigma attached.

AS people have been similarly mis-labeled or un-labeled, and for similar reasons.

NT's would like to believe all persons of note are NT. Straights want to claim all famous or accomplished people were straight. Males want to diminish the contributions of women -- and so it has gone for centuries.

There is an instantaneous knee-jerk objection to the idea that anyone who has achieved greatness is anything but "just good ol' NORMAL folks like us" -- straight, male, white, christian, and certainly neurotypical

In order for any marginalized group to emerge from the shadows to which the majority and the vicissitudes of history have consigned them, a reexamination of traditional assumptions must take place.

When history claims all great figures for the majority group, it is then that there is "without a doubt ... a political agenda." History is an account of the dominant group's selective and biased testimony, working as it must with some inconvenient facts. Most facts, however, can be massaged to conform to the dominant group's agenda. Facts are re-written, buried, lied about and subject to cultural amnesia.

It is ironic that people who say "It is impossible to speculate that Historical Figure X was Aspie," then speculate that HFX was NT.

I couldn't care less whether Jesus Christ was Aspie, gay, or a giant purple bunny-rabbit. But it is ridiculous to defensively dismiss the reexamination of history -- and historical figures -- in the light of emerging understanding.

"The term 'gay' may be recent but the concept of (male)homosexuality has been understood for Thousands of years."

That's simply not true. The fact that you would make that statement indicates your ignorance of the subject. You should either confine your discussion to topics you know something about or remain a learner rather than a self-appointed authority.

"I thought it was a known fact that Alexander the Great was gay."

It was known that he had a sexual/romantic relationship with Hephaestion -- among other males -- but the concept of same-sex orientation was not remotely understood at that time. There wasn't even a word for 'homosexual" as a discrete category until, I think 1896. And even then it was grossly misunderstood and misapplied.

All that was understood in earlier times was that a particular sexual act (or acts) could (but should not) take place between persons of the same sex. It was thought of strictly in terms of a verb, an act, usually performed for wicked, criminal or insane reasons -- hence the idea of perversion, the willful turning aside from what was normal.

I suppose one could argue that it is a perversion for a heterosexual to have sex with a person of the same gender. And at that time it was assumed that all people were "heterosexual" since the general (non)understanding at that time was purely of a genital/procreational nature. The word heterosexual didn't exist, or course, because there was no understanding that such a distinction was necessary.

Some time periods and cultures were less harsh in judging the act, but there was still no particular understanding that there was an actual type of person who was actually oriented toward same-sex affection and sexual attraction, and for whom it was therefore natural. The idea of gay identity and orientation was still far off.

All that said, I would rather not see this thread hijacked. There are many good sources for learning about how the concepts of sexual orientation and identity have evolved.

Ziyaret, you are ignorant on this subject and you seem intent on staying that way. You can't even read and understand what I just explained to you.

I decline to continue with the hijacking of this thread. Go read a book.

Here's what I've got on my bookshelf, dude. When you're finished reading them, send me a private message. At this point, you don't understand enough to participate in a discussion of the subject. And...

STOP HIJACKING THE THREAD

The Construction of Homosexuality by David Greenberg

A Natural History of Homosexuality by Mondimore

Homosexuality and Civilization by Louis Crompton

Gay Life & Culture: A World History by Robert Aldrich

Out of the Past: Gay and Lesbian History from 1869 to the Present by Neil Miller

Born to Be Gay: A History of Homosexuality by William Naphy

Conundrum: The Evolution of Homosexuality by N. J. Peters

"I do not claim to be an expert on homosexuality nor do I care that much."

You've made the former much more obvious than the latter.

BACK on TOPIC:

What about famous Aspie Couples? There must be some...

Woody Allen and Diane Keaton...?

anyone else?

Ceri Chaos Wrote:

Batman55 Wrote:

Ceri Chaos Wrote:

Back to the subject of famous aspies...

He may have already been mentioned, but Peter Howson, successful Scottish artist (Glasgow based I think) has AS.

He tends to paint stylised figures (often muscular angry looking women) with black outlines. I think there is some of his work in the Peoples Palace, Glasgow if anyone lives round there and wants to have a look.

Do you live in New Britain?

New Britain? No, I live in regular, boring, 100% original Old Britain. Great Britain, the United Kingdom, 'England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland', or whatever else you want to call it, but definitely not New Britain.
Where on earth is New Britain?

If you really want to know... ask Meiloyn. Wink

Lili Marlene Wrote:

Ziyaret wrote:
"This reminds me of way back in the early to mid 90s when there was wild speculation about historical figures being gay-or possibly being gay. Or even gays claim that everyone is bisexual."

I think this "wild speculation" about the gayness of famous people might have started well before the 1990s. I think the culprits may not only have been gay activists, I think the Freud brigade, psychoanalytic theorists, were also guilty of wanton labelling of all unattached people as homosexual. Freud enthusiasts appear to have believed that all people were highly sexed, so if some famous person had no apparent sex life, they concluded that they must have been a repressed or closet gay. There appears to be no room in the Freudian universe for the loner or the asexual or the "hard-to-match" person.

Many of the people in my main "famous aspies" list have been the subject of incorrect speulation that they were gay, probably because they never married. Glenn Gould was "claimed" by gay activists, even though there was apprently no evidence of homosexuality and much evidence of hetero activities. Newton was I believe labelled as a gay by a Freudian, but evidence from his own diaries suggests heterosexual desires. Patrick Pearse, diagnosed as possibly AS by Fitzgerald, is another case of a famous person with no apparent sex life assumed and rumoured to be gay:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Pearse
http://www.novenaltd.com/jsp/Liberties/b...brilliance

Many people have been annoyed by the unfounded speculation about homosexuality that happened years ago. Unlike the current wave of speculation about "famous aspies", that speculation was based on absolutely NO evidence for their case.

"I guess a lot of Aspies are looking for role models-without a doubt it has a political agenda. But Asperger Syndrome is quite a bit more than just eccentricity, or the appearance of it."

I'm not looking for any role-model (I'm in my 40s!). I do think it may be useful to study the lives of autistics to find out how they managed to succeed in this unwelcoming world that we live in, especially if one is a young aspie.

I believe eccentricity may be the only thing about an intelligent, socially-aware autistic person that NTs may notice as unusual, so I have little time for those who say stuff like "Oh, he was only eccentric". Stims and special interests are I think essential characteristics of AS, but these behaviours can be concealed or kept private by some aspies. Clumsiness may not be obvious if a clumsy person aviods activities in which clumsiness will show.
Social clumsiness can be hidden if one stays away from social activities. Many aspies are great at discussing subjects that they love in a social manner, because the mutual interest in the subject makes the discussion feel social and empathetic.

How about the great "quirky book writer" Edward Gorey, who died recently?

He was variably discussed as gay or asexual, and was a highly eccentric, reclusive individual who was also quite intelligent. He seems to fit the Aspie profile. Maybe we should start gathering data on him, and add him to the list of posthumous Aspies.

Lili Marlene Wrote:

Ziyaret wrote:
"This reminds me of way back in the early to mid 90s when there was wild speculation about historical figures being gay-or possibly being gay. Or even gays claim that everyone is bisexual."

I think this "wild speculation" about the gayness of famous people might have started well before the 1990s. I think the culprits may not only have been gay activists, I think the Freud brigade, psychoanalytic theorists, were also guilty of wanton labelling of all unattached people as homosexual. Freud enthusiasts appear to have believed that all people were highly sexed, so if some famous person had no apparent sex life, they concluded that they must have been a repressed or closet gay. There appears to be no room in the Freudian universe for the loner or the asexual or the "hard-to-match" person.

Many of the people in my main "famous aspies" list have been the subject of incorrect speulation that they were gay, probably because they never married. Glenn Gould was "claimed" by gay activists, even though there was apprently no evidence of homosexuality and much evidence of hetero activities. Newton was I believe labelled as a gay by a Freudian, but evidence from his own diaries suggests heterosexual desires. Patrick Pearse, diagnosed as possibly AS by Fitzgerald, is another case of a famous person with no apparent sex life assumed and rumoured to be gay:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Pearse
http://www.novenaltd.com/jsp/Liberties/b...brilliance

Many people have been annoyed by the unfounded speculation about homosexuality that happened years ago. Unlike the current wave of speculation about "famous aspies", that speculation was based on absolutely NO evidence for their case.

"I guess a lot of Aspies are looking for role models-without a doubt it has a political agenda. But Asperger Syndrome is quite a bit more than just eccentricity, or the appearance of it."

I'm not looking for any role-model (I'm in my 40s!). I do think it may be useful to study the lives of autistics to find out how they managed to succeed in this unwelcoming world that we live in, especially if one is a young aspie.

I believe eccentricity may be the only thing about an intelligent, socially-aware autistic person that NTs may notice as unusual, so I have little time for those who say stuff like "Oh, he was only eccentric". Stims and special interests are I think essential characteristics of AS, but these behaviours can be concealed or kept private by some aspies. Clumsiness may not be obvious if a clumsy person aviods activities in which clumsiness will show.
Social clumsiness can be hidden if one stays away from social activities. Many aspies are great at discussing subjects that they love in a social manner, because the mutual interest in the subject makes the discussion feel social and empathetic.

Yeah it's like I can certainly discuss artistic video games and a film by a director I love, with great enthusiasm (in a very social manner), and I can also show my offbeat sense of humor to one who connects with it (in a very social manner), but besides that I don't have a place in the narcissistic male NT world. I don't have any "genuine social exploits" to talk about, and so on, it's just not within my realm of consciousness and therefore I'm quite left out.

.jaime.

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