Aspies For Freedom

I agree with Lili that this seems quite radical.  But I'm not as enthusiastic as others  seem to be.  

It seems to me that trying to form a single group with people who have autism is misguided, for broadly the same reasons that it would be misguided for people with colorblindness to try to identify themselves in the public perception with people who have complete blindness.  There are technical similarities, and both conditions appear on the same spectrum, but the differences make nonsense of the idea.

It is, though, you know.  Unless your definition of 'blindness' is so narrow as not to include anyone who can, say, perceive light from dark, then colourblindness is on the spectrum and people who have it are partly blind--they can't perceive certain colors that 'normal' people can.

What does that have to do with the issue?  

And some do have a different neurology, yes (in the case of the blind, I believe recent evidence is that most do).  And all have a different way of relating socially, yes.  

'Lack theory of mind'?  What does that mean in this context?

So what?  What makes that more important for taxonomy than something else?

The trouble there is that even when Aspies and thos ewith other ASDs are officially recognized, there is still the problem of what will happen if and when pre-natal testing becomes availible.  Should this ever come to pas,, there will be such a dramatic decline in Aspie births that we may well become extinct (assuming that there is in fact a genetic cause for ASDs, and that they are not caused solely by the environment).  Therefor it is also necessary to ensure that a fetus diagnosed with an ASD is proteted, either by legislation or by simply educating potential parents in the pros as well as the cons of life as an Aspie.

This has crossed my mind before... the stubbornness with which Schafer perseveres against high-functioning autistics, and refuses to even acknowledge any evidence that highlights his at times gross mistakes and illogicity of his arguments, could well be seen as a very "typical" trait. (i.e. "ability to pursue personal theory or perspective despite conflicting evidence" as Attwood and Gray put it)

A lot of what he writes sounds more like someone with a grudge at not getting a diagnosis - and hence starting a "cruisade" against those who have, or are confident in their self-diagnosis - than like someone interested or knowledgeable in the area of autism  :roll:

Can it be that an autistic person is a person who Shafer says is autistic?

Stella

Sometimes I think we need our own state like the Palestinians. Pass out the slingshots...LOL

When I first read about this, originally from this site....
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/11/prweb179444.htm

I was doubtful about it.  My first doubt was the case that people would accuse Aspies and HFA's of trying to milk the government for SSI income becasue we are a disadvantaged group.  People are going to suggest this.  But there is another issue that I think about that legitimizes the case of ASD as a minority status.  Employment, financial, housing and credit discrimination.  

I've been working since the age of 11.  Since then I've a comprehensive list of experience pertaining to discrimination by placement services, College placement reps, housing and transportation discrimination.  Soemtimes it's not just employment discrimination, but the consecutive expectation by employers to work for free for many extra hours of the week because "I really needed the work"  This is the type of behaviour that was once dispenesed to ethnic minorities before they decided to fight against it.  

Unconditional legal discrimination is the biggest issue for me on this, because I'm financially responsible for another HFA who is unofficially diagnosed, but is not able to work.    Those who have ever employed me do their best to "hide me" from the public to preserve the image of their business.  

I think the first thing you need to do to get started on this is to focus on adults who can provide written experiences of the various types of discrimination they've recieved and go thorugh in a regular basis.  This will give anyone in the legal profession a case to work with.

Nope i definitely don't want financial benefits at all.  all i want if i had an official DX would be help in the social areas that i struggle with so i can catch up, so i can get out there and work
and get rid of the many DSM ( no not dialup schedule manager or the dutch mining company! :smile: )acronyms around my neck  I hate my history. I am only on a benefit because i can't get rid of the erroneous DSM (diagnostic and statistical manual for those who want to turn people into disorders) crap.
Has anyone checked it out? it is amusing and sickening. what number do you feel like today? How many numbers can you collect? This is my attempt at sarcasm.

Im sorry i should have put this on the rant thread
becca

Funny, isn't it...

Western societies don't seem to mind classifying majorities/minorities based upon:

skin color
language
birthplace/country of origin
religious affiliation
economic status
level of education
sexual orientation

...but those categories are based upon statistically quantifiable distinguishors.

OK, OK, so it can be argued that Autism/AS can be quantifiably distinguished using DSM (Diabolically Shortsighted Misnomers)-IV etc...but some dimensions of differing Minds (with a capital M) are hard to quantify in a way that makes sense to those who are not in possession of the minority paradigm...kinda like the difference between 3 dimensions and 11, ya know?

Rosie

--new to this forum, very happy to have found AFF, and a lifelong Aspie with adult diagnosis

Hello Roderick and welcome!

I agree that we are a neurological minority...it's not racial and it's *not* a disability--at least in my book!  

I also at times really like seeing Asperger's as a cultural minority...because what is a culture, after all, other than the way a group of people perceives and interacts with their world/environment?

Believe me, I empathise with the pain and the lack of self-confidence that results!  However, I think if we try to use a Social Model for disability then just about EVERYONE is disabled under that definition!!  It gets to be so complicated, with so many fine distinctions, that it seems to me we'd be mired down forever debating semantics.

I prefer the cultural distinction because (a) it "works" for me; and (b) developed nations (and even developing nations) recognise cultural majorities and minorities.  In the States, and in many developed nations, it is easier to fight discrimination on the basis of culture, creed and race than on differing levels of ability.  

Using the cultural model, one can assert one's rights and protections using the framework of an existing societal paradigm rather than trying to force an NT world to acquire a paradigm that is most likely isn't capable of acquiring, and then expecting it to use that paradigm and move within it proficiently.

Just thoughts...

Certainly i have known for many years i had particular problems that don't make sense. It is as if i do not correlate well with myself .
I did not know how to describe  my problems to myself and then to others to get the right help.  
i was ok in primary school because it was a predictable environment. then things began to turn to custard very slowly. i did not develop socially and emotionally but managed physically and intellectually to do high school- but only coping with music and art.
Then i read Donna Williams book and thought that was it. But by then i already lost my mind a bit and was diagnosed with various psychiatric disorders and given medications for the next few years. This has made it very hard to explain myself and very angry too. A couple of psychiatrists gave tentative aspergers diagnoses but with no suggestion of what i should do. Those who have been part of my support system do not think i am AS because their experience and knowledge of autism is with children and not adults. I have many one to one skills i have learned to use to impress people because i cannot be confrontational. perhaps i should lose my temper but then thats when they think i am psychotic and i get doped up. It hasnt happened too often but the experience is too traumatic.
I am very good at giving an impression of solidity but after awhile something gets in the way. I know i had to resign from my job recently because of my struggles with AS. Not that i resent AS.  Discovering this forum has explained so much. I do not have much self esteem but this is where i get it.
I have lots of years of experience in the mental illness area now and there are a great many people with psychiatric diagnoses who would have been better off with an earlier diagnosis of autism so that dyslexias and social skills problems could be attended to and drug addictions and unneccessary medications and eating disorders and criminal convictions and institutionalisations wouldn't happen.
I estimate about 50% of people i have met over the last 11 years have symptoms as a result of not getting the right support. It often ends in tragedy and further drain on the health system in the long run.
The problem of giving someone a diagnosis can be complicating because then you may be treated as if you have behaviours or symptoms you do not. I believe any  treatments for people who identify with AS is very dangerous as our bodies are not predictable.
Well some of you may disagree with that, i guess :smile: My experiences with medication have been dreadful and i felt very much unlike myself- as if my hands and feet were cut off. This was strange because i knew so little about myself anyway. But i certainly learned what i was not.
Maybe these problems are just specific to the area where i live. Health services over the world are hugely variable. I feel i would be happier in a country that was technologically slower and where everyone was important to the community even if their job was a simple one. It is funny living in a country that is fairly well off but which seems to lack service providers with knowledge about Autism.
think i better stop now..
thanks
becca

I would like to have job again. I certainly need the money. But really I will need one eventually for the interaction with something outside myself. So it won't be paper delivery. i have no confidence left for dealing with other people in the workplace now. Even though i would like to help others like myself. Think i 'll just walk dogs for now.
becca