Aspies For Freedom

Although this statement is not self-evident, you assert it without proof.  Facts themselves may indeed exist independently of our thoughts about them (there is much philosophical and religious debate on this point)--but all we have access to are our own thoughts. When I look at this computer screen, for instance, what I see is not that screen, but a picture of it in my mind. That picture may evoke many emotions, which color my supposedly "objective" perception right from the start.

It seems as though your belief that we can access "reality" itself has led you to the further assumption that you, personally, have done so, and thus that what you believe is the truth. Others in this argument may share this assumption, believing that they have the "truth" rather than you. So, you and many of your interlocutors assert your/ther points rather than proving them. Yet, if we substitute repetition for reasoned debate, we won't get anywhere. Indeed, you and a whole lot of people in this thread seem hurt and frustrated by this conversation.

If I may, I find a quote from the Japanese Tale of the Heike particularly apt here:

"All men have minds, and each mind has its own way of looking at things. It may seem that someone else is right and we are wrong; it may seem that we are right and someone else is wrong.  But who can lay down a strict view for telling right from wrong? There are wisdom and folly on both sides of a question; we can no more separate the two than we can identify the ends of a ring. If someone shows anger against you, ask yourself whether you may not be at fault."

Finally, I am intrigued by your user name. Are you connected in any way with Green Lion Press? Are you connected to St. John's College/ do you live in Santa Fe, NM? I got my BA at St. John's and am currently purtuing their MA in Eastern Classics. We may have met.

I don't think that question is pointless, for GreenLion can only argue so vehemently and with such apparent resistance to compromise, from the basic assumption that truth exists, that we are capable of apprehending it--and that he has found the truth of this debate, and we are ignorant of it.

That's cool. I feel insecure here often as well. You make pretty good points all around; I just hope GreenLion comes back to listen to us. (Especially if he actually lives in my hometown, as I suspect he might. If we sit down and have coffee with each other, he might see that people like us aren't as anguished as he thinks we are. He might be less afraid then {for his hypothetical children}, which might make him less angry, and less iron-clad.)

I understand this. My sister asks me "Do you love me?"(she looks hurt when she asks this, as if she believes I don't love her) Just because I don't say it whenever I see her doesn't mean that I don't love her.  I look at her for a while and say "yes." it always surprises me when she asks this, as if I've never done things for her, or tried to be the best big sister I can be to her. Personally, this hurts my feelings when she asks this, I sit there and think, "Why does she keep asking me this? Why should I have to tell her I love her all the time? Actions speak louder than words." I get confused because I'm unsure how to show her that I love her, I thought that she already knew that. hmm....I'm confused (How do I show her that I love her more than doing things for her? Can someone answer this?)

This has been key for us. My skills as a parent were inadequate to provide the best childhood for my AS son. He didn't need to change, *I* needed to learn. I have no doubts at all that were my parents parenting my son 30-something years ago, their response to his behaviors/personality would have been to physically and metnally dominate him - to the point of "breaking" him if necessary. They would have accepted nothing less than compliance to their ideas of "normal". Lukily for them, they had 3 compliant, NT children. But their ideas and methods would have been an unmitigated disaster were they to have had a child like my son.

Having an AS child does not turn parents into selfless saints. I have no doubt that my parents ideas and approaches to raising children are alive and well today.  

Why feel sympathy for somebody who talks about how much of a burden their innocent three year old child is to them, how much they cost, how they're never going to be good enough an how they wish they could kill them. If these parents were genuinely stressed and confused (as it must be trying to raise a kid with different neurological wiring to you) but didn't badmouth or undermine their children or play the pity card then I might feel sympathy for them.

Do you not think the parents who were sobbing to the camera because their child wasn't going to be in a school sports team were self-absorbed and ignorant? How about te parents that blatantly said- IN FRONT OF THEIR AUTISTIC KIDS- That autistics shouldn't exist, and that it woud be a happy day when technology was found to wipe them out.

It doesn't have to. Half the expensive therapies parents remortgage the house to have are unnecessary. In fact I believe the intensive stuff is downright cruel. Autistic children are still children, and should be allowed to have a childhood.

Most of the problem comes from parents who are obsessed with making their children normal. Wouldn't they be better off teaching their kids to be proud of who they are? Also autistic people often adapt to society on their own, in their own time.

And the parents in the film kept forcing their young kids to do things they didn't want to do for long periods of time- and then wondered why they got distracted or whiny. They blamed the autism.
Autism isn't the cause. I challenge you to get ANY toddler to sit down and do a jigsaw with you when they'd rather be doing something else.

Most people on this site are against a cure for autism, so that argument just isn't going to hold any water. Why would we see your point of view if it's supporting a cause we don't agree with?

I agree that some people on here do panic a bit over this, but don't dismiss it. Many people are progressively working towards something that many of us see as genocide against us. Why wouldn't at least a few of us be worried?

I understand that it must be strange, but bear in mind that it doesn't mean your child doesn't love you- they're just not that good at showing it. Try and work out alternative methods of communication- get into your child's mndset as best as possible.
The best way to get around the dashed expectations thing is to not have expectations for your child in the first place! It isn't fair on any child- autistic or otherwise- to feel that they have to live up to goals their parents set them when they were babies, and feel like failures if they don't.

You sound like you think a parents is well within their rights to think that their autistic toddler isn't good enough becasue they're unlikely to be in a sports team/may need to go in special ed/Stim.
A young autistic child may not be what you expected, but they haven't done anyhing wrong! They aren't being autistic just to spite you! It is unfair to traet them with contempt just because they didn't come who you'd expected them to. Children aren't dolls, after all!

As other posters have said, replace 'autistic' with 'gay' or 'ginger' or 'left-handed' and you'll see where the problem is.

I do think punishing the child is a bit harsh though- she'd only young and probably wonders why her sister doesn't want to play with her. She just needs to be sat down and taught that there is nothing wrong with her sister, and get given ideas on how she can spend some time with her.

Wow. Thanks for that story, Breeze.

yeah well it probably grinds your teeth down to stumps by the time you're thirty something, eh.

Then again, all parents have been known to make mistakes.