As a stay at home mom of two energetic NTs, I know that taking care of kids is difficult. I can well imagine how overwhelming it would be to have a child with any kind of "special need," but I question whether there would be no moments of joy or delight or relief. I think we as humans really only have control over one thing in our lives, and that is our attitude. I can decide that life is miserable or delightful in any set of circumstances--with completely NT kids or a house full of AS's.
What is troubling is to hear that the Autism Speaks video is so biased and focused on the negative moments of life as the parent of an Autistic child. And it troubles me to think that anyone would have an agenda of promoting the abortion of potentially Autistic children.
I think it is not outrageous that the parents in the video feel overwhelmed and exhausted--anyone that is a parent is familiar with these feelings. It IS outrageous, however, that the public's understanding of Autism should be manipulated so blatantly.
I can relate to that. For instance, I love my mum, she knows I love her, but she has to do most of the work in keeping contact with me (she lives about 50 miles away). I do phone her up when I have a reason to, but phoning her "just because" is in that list of things that I know I ought to do but don't in practice because it seems like a waste of time.
I hope that my mum understands that I do love her in my own way, I don't think it's any less than my sister who phones her every single day. So to all these parents - if you're expecting a certain response then you're going to be disappointed, but if you learn how your child expresses love, then you will get all the love that you crave.
I didn't come here to troll or make anyone upset.
However, my opposition to aborting them is based on their being human beings, not because they have genetic abnormalities that should somehow be preserved.
I hope that you don't think I'm plucking things out of context but your first and last sentences don't match. You say you didn't come here to troll but in the very same post you call us genetic abnormalities? What would be your definition of trolling if that isn't it?
You and others who are taking offense at some of my statements and opinions need to distinguish between what I am saying about autism versus what I am saying about people with autism. You are not autism. You are a person with autism.
Saying that I would like to end autism doesn't mean I want to "get rid" of people with autism. Saying that autism imposes a severe cost on a family is to blame the AUTISM, not the PEOPLE with autism.
I do understand what you are trying to say, but you do not decide what I am, I do that. I call myself an Aspie, because that's what I am. I'm not ignorant, I'm not arrogant, I'm not a wierdo, I'm an Aspie and you have no right to label me with anything else.
If I wasn't an Aspie, then I would have probably had a happier childhood and yes, very probably my parents would have had an easier life. But if I wasn't an Aspie then I wouldn't be me. I would be a completely different person, as if I was wiped out and someone else had my name and life. Why would I want that? Would you want that?
When you say you want to get rid of autism, then I hear you saying that the world would be better off if people like me didn't exist. Don't be surprised if that goes down badly.
Misfortune such as disease/disorder/handicap, poverty, abuse, injustice, and more can sometimes shape our characters in profoundly life-altering and even positive ways. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't work to reduce it or eliminate it in the future.
I note you haven't answered my question, but I'll let that pass.
The point is that I don't consider myself as unfortunate. Why is that hard for you to accept? Why would I want to fix what isn't broke?
I suggest actually making an intellectually honest effort to engage with the points I've made instead.
Okay then, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but only if you address our points instead of ducking them.
Imagine you had the cure to all the autism spectrum, it's just one tablet, proved to be 100% safe and free of side effect. I refuse to take the tablet. Would you respect my decision?
DM Andy wrote:
Imagine you had the cure to all the autism spectrum, it's just one tablet, proved to be 100% safe and free of side effect. I refuse to take the tablet. Would you respect my decision?
That depends on your definition of "respect". I certainly believe strongly that you have a right to refuse to take that tablet, which no entity should ever violate.
However, I would disagree with your decision and consider it strange at best. And if asked, I might tell you so. If a broader social movement emerged advocating that the tablet not be taken, I would criticize it.
I think that "consider it strange at best" sums up the whole discussion so far. The NT world considers their way the best way and everything else is "abnormal". But the only reason that my childhood was unhappy at all was because the NT world didn't want to accept my differences. I am sorry if I appear defensive to you, but I've had enough of "why don't you just fit in?" pep talks to last me a lifetime.
Now back to the video, I freely admit that I haven't seen it, as I think it would upset me but there seems to be no disagreement from either side about the facts of the video. I don't have much sympathy for the moms (why no dads) presented as they seem self-pitying. That makes me think why are they more willing to take the role of victim then their children are? Their kids can be happy, if the parents are prepared to work with them, not seek to turn them into someone they aren't.
I suggest that you hang around here and listen to us. Then you might realise that we're not so bad, that our "genetic abnormality" doesn't stop us being individuals, being successful in our own ways, being happy. Then you might realise why we don't want to change.
I'd like to sincerely apologise to everyone in this board and reiterate how very upset I am that my words are being used this way.
I can't speak for anyone else, but in my opinion you have nothing to apologise for. It's GreenLion that decided to twist your words, not you.
I read your post and didn't see anything wrong with it. Your life would have been different had you not had your child and it's completely understandable to be frustrated about it. But the difference between you and the mums on the video (or to be far, the way Autism Speaks presents them) is that you haven't blamed Alex for it.
It seems to me that Alex is lucky to have you as a mum.
[When I suffer from cruel remarks or treatment from other people, I am suffering as a result of their cruelty, and not as a result of autism.
Well said, crys.
As for not wanting to become non-autistic, let me turn your question from earlier back at you. I know you wouldn't take a 100% safe/effective/no side effects autism cure pill. But would you deny other autistics that choice? Do you oppose research to develop such a cure?
I wouldn't deny anyone the choice and there may be some that would. However that's a false question as if a cure existed then our 2 and 3 year old cousins would be given that cure they wouldn't be given the choice. It would be the parents choice. How long before some families have their autistic child taken away from them as not giving him the cure is evidence of their neglect of the child. So if a cure existed it would wipe out autistic culture at just the point where new technology allows it to exist.
Do I oppose research into developing such a cure? Empathically yes. Firstly the cure would have the effect of wiping us out as I've outlined above. But secondly, there's a huge opportunity cost. Why can't Autism Speaks or CAN spend their time, energy and resources to promoting autistic culture, promoting understanding, helping new parents bringing up autistic children. Okay CAN would have to change it's name but I'm imagining a future where every family with an autistic member gets all the support it needs, where every autistic child is helped to maximise his or her potential.
Hasn't that got to be a more appealing future than one where autism is something found only in dusty history books.
We can't waste time fighting, GreenLion, don't fight us, work with us to build a brighter future. Come and celebrate the fact we exist.
If we marry as soon as possible and concieve immediately, our first child would be born when she is 35, the "magic age" at which risk factors for conditions such as autism begin to rise dramatically. She is also overweight, another substantial risk factor.
Your fears are based on the possibility that your own child might be autistic, and so you want a cure just in case???
The chances of having an autistic child does not increase with age, you are thinking of Down's Syndrome, and some other conditions, not autism. And being overweight, that has zero to do with a baby having autism.
You have astonished me with these comments!!!!
Buried amid the soothing noises designed to placate people who personalize everything, the following cold hard fact emerged from the CDC: http://www.webmd.com/content/Article/88/...genumber=2
"As a group, autistic children's mothers gave birth at an older age."
As science journalist Michael Fumento, has pointed out in passing in a dispute over the anti-immunization hysteria:
"If indeed there is more autism, a likely culprit is women having babies later than ever – something long associated with numerous birth defects. Another is the obesity epidemic. About 20 published studies have found that children from overweight moms, much less those who are outright obese, have higher rates of many types of birth defects. To point this out, of course, is to beg for a horsewhipping from feminists, fat activists, and trial lawyers."
I cannot believe your nerve to tell us we are burdens on society, and you want a cure, as a back up plan if your girlfriend marries you, if you have a child, and if that child is autistic.
For the 68,000th time, separate yourself from the remarks I make about autism. Autism is a burden on society. Don't personalize that and take it as an insult, that's pointless.
And of course I'd want a cure for autism, just as I would for Down Syndrome or cleft palate or anything else, not just for the betterment of the world and the lifting of a burden on people who would otherwise have to bear it, but also in case anyone I know and love might be personally affected by it. Why on Earth wouldn't I?? Your "how dare you" huffing and puffing is strange.[/url]
Greenlion! You own link proved you wrong! Did you even read it yourself??
"Buried amid the soothing noises designed to placate people who personalize everything, the following cold hard fact emerged from the CDC: http://www.webmd.com/content/Article/88/...genumber=2"
As a group, autistic children's mothers gave birth at an older age. And autistic children tended to be firstborns.
None of these problems caused autism, Glasson is quick to point out.
That is the top paragraph from the link YOU posted as proof that ageing mothers are at greater risk of having an autistic child.
I read the whole article. Glasson's disclaimer does not deny that age is a risk factor. It's merely a cautionary note to prevent oversimplification of the issue.
GreenLion:
I find it rather amusing in some ways that you yourself have autistic traits and still insist that a cure would be a good thing.
Would you like to lose your interest in trivia, your interest in computing and your ability to focus on tasks for long periods of time?
I don't consider myself autistic and don't believe any medical expert would diagnose me as such, but I recognize that many of my traits resemble those of people on the spectrum. So I figure that any offspring I might have stand a substantially greater chance than the usual 1 in 166 (is that right) of being autistic.
To answer your question, no, I wouldn't.
And people are shaped by their experiences; they become part of who they are. I bet many people who have even experienced the most terrible traumas, such as child abuse, being in a concentration camp, etc., would not undo those experiences because they are now an inextricable part of themselves. They may even have grown greatly in wisdom or commitment to social justice as a result, and come to use those experiences to make the world better. But I still want to stamp out child abuse and concentration camps to prevent anyone else from experiencing those things, and I'm sure they would too.
It's a flawed analogy but you see my point I hope.
how strange it was to me that there was not an ounce of expressed compassion for these mothers until I challenged you to express it.
Oh, I know that they are probably discriminated against. I have sympathy for those who are discriminated against, whether they are the children or the parents. I do feel for parents who are discriminated against as a result of misunderstandings, for having an Autistic child.
I would like to ask you one question. What do you, personally, believe that the video, Autism Every Day, is designed to achieve? Is it designed exclusively to promote research into a cure, or is it, at least in part, designed to raise awareness and hopefully improve funding, care, resources etc?
I think I addressed this before... my take on it has been that it is designed to promote a cure. I watched it again last night, however, and my view on that has changed somewhat. The mothers talk about the difficulty of finances, finding appropriate schooling, etc., so perhaps it would be seen as the latter as well.
If indeed there is more autism, a likely culprit is women having babies later than ever – something long associated with numerous birth defects. Another is the obesity epidemic. About 20 published studies have found that children from overweight moms, much less those who are outright obese, have higher rates of many types of birth defects. To point this out, of course, is to beg for a horsewhipping from feminists, fat activists, and trial lawyers.
Correlation does not equal causation. Who knows? Maybe women that carry the genes for autism are more likely to give birth at a later age? Maybe carrying the genes for genetic disorders also increases the chance of obesity? Maybe it's all just chance? Nothing is proved by merely stating a correlation.
That's all undeniable. However, looking at myself and my girlfriend, and realizing that all these risk factors, or correlations, are present, I think it's reasonable for me to believe that the odds of autistic offspring are higher for me than for the average bear.