Aspies For Freedom

I'm really looking for advice here because I've been told by my partner (who was once a full-time carer of autistic-spectrum kids and teenagers)  that she thinks I'm an Aspie.  Having quietly read through all sorts of info, some things fit - others don't.  I'm sorry about this long post - I expect it's kinda usual in this thread with people not wanting to seek formal diagnosis (me included) and I wanted to include as much as I could recall...

The main things that DO seem to fit are as follows...

VISUAL

I’ve always been ‘visual’ – every single thought creating a race of pictures.  If pictures don’t happen, I can’t understand what’s being said to me (I used to think I was just very slow or maybe even had some weird hearing problem).  I have terrible trouble in busy social situations where I simply can't understand what is being said to me.  The pictures can cause problems too – I can get ‘wrong pictures’ which can lead to me believing something other than what I’m meant to believe, or send me totally off course.

Patterns around me cause aggravation.  My eyes are forever distracted by uneven brickwork, imaginary triangles between lines (doorframes, pictures etc) and wallpaper patterns.  Whenever I’m just sitting (as in having conversation) this starts and I hate it.

I’m stupidly distracted by anything bright or moving in my line of vision when talking with someone else.

I take things too literally.  I seem to hear each word independently when being spoken to, and I see pictures from those words and it is the images that dictate their meaning.  Focussing on one word means I usually lose sight of the whole picture.  This was a handicap in trying to study poetry in Eng Literature studies.  Oh, and I rarely get jokes.



SOCIAL

As a child, I consistently failed to make friends.  I was forever bullied at every school I ever attended yet I never understood WHY.  Nowadays, not having friends feels like more of a choice.  I prefer being alone, or with my partner.  I CAN now make friends on occasion, but I find I have their conversations and try to be their sort of friend.

Despite having worked in the same friendly team for the last 10 or so years, I always hope that no-one will notice or speak to me whenever I arrive at work.  I avoid speaking to anyone unless I need to.

I have no problem with making eye contact with people I know well; otherwise, I can’t make eye contact at all.  I find it difficult and distracting, and am unable to hear what is being said to me because I’m not ‘seeing pictures’ in my mind.

I never felt ‘love’ – always felt curiously cold towards most people, even NICE people.  I never understood that.  However, I did seem to latch on to people in what could best be described as a ‘crush’.  One or two rapidly became obsessions, the last one enduring some 25 years despite the subject of my attentions (an old school teacher) being long ago in my past.  This became closely dangerous to stalking (and I did start despite now living some 200 miles away).  This last obsession stopped only once I met my partner.

When I’ve been amongst strangers or places with many people, I collapse asleep – no matter where I am.  A visit to the shops is guaranteed to do it and we now allow for it happening.



PHYSICAL

I never get hungry.  Quite happy not eating.  I have to be reminded to eat.  I forget to go to bed when at my PC.  I have realised it’s 7:30am the next morning before going to bed.

I’m always and forever cold and cannot get warm.  That said, I hate extremes of temperature including ‘too hot’.

I’m overly clumsy – especially on my feet.  But clumsy with everything else too.  Was very bad at physical ed at school – just totally ungainly and uncoordinated.

And the last thing of all: rather horrified to discover that I flap things.  Cutlery especially when eating – and wildly.  I never EVER noticed this before and I feel incredulous that I never did because it is BIZARRE.  It was my partner who pointed it out – and she often smiles when catching me at it again.


INTERESTS

I latch on to weird things that seem to be of inexplicable interest: pylons, for example, petrol station signs, naval ships, overhead gantries on electric rail lines.  I always loved making lists of anything and everything, although I tend to do this less nowadays.

My predominant obsession is my PC.  If I can’t be doing anything with it (bored of the games, bored of creating anything, bored of programming), I’ll just pointlessly click on icons and move folders around.  I often hate being away from my PC.



THINKING, INTELLECT AND COMMUNICATING

I can’t seem to ‘think’ in advance on behalf of anyone else.  My disabled partner would be spared much pain if only I THOUGHT to do things myself.   Household chores simply never register.  I never notice that anything might need attention.

I never notice when people around me are upset, in pain, tired, mad with me or anything else.

My partner finds me hard-going in communication because I ALWAYS misunderstand what is being said.  I often assume I am ‘to blame’ for something or other, when it later transpires that no-one was being blamed for anything.  I tend to be overly defensive.

I was always backwards at school – failed to understand anything.  Then a few years back I had a real shock.  I took a supervised MENSA IQ test and attained an unexpectedly high score (found in only 2% of the population, apparently).  Yet I was always so very stupid at school.

FINALLY

Every online test I have tried has scored me very highly.  Even if I have been totally literal (for example: answering a question about difficulty making friends as 'not difficult' if I have ever had friends), I have still scored well within the Aspergers assessment...

http://www.thegeeksyndrome.com/: 33
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html: 44
http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php:

DOUBTS

But why I’m asking here is because there are several BUTs in looking at me versus the defined criteria that I've read…  I don’t talk with any ‘odd prosody’, I don’t always have a problem with eye contact, I don’t have any stilted or overly formal language, at a superficial level I CAN make ‘friends’ (ie work colleagues), I’m not a ritualistic person (I doggedly try to sit in the same seat of anywhere I’ve been before – but that’s all as far as I know), I’m sure I probably appear pretty normal to others, I don’t have unnatural repetitive body movements other than jiggling about a bit when sitting (as many other people seem to do) and I think I can tell when I’m boring someone (I can run on and on about things sometimes).  None of these fit – none at all, and some seem important in the diagnostic criteria and so I just don’t know.  

Can anyone maybe advise?  I can't see me being able to seek a diagnosis as I'm just useless at speaking to people in any kind of authority (doctors included) and I don't even know my doctor.

Thank you for having the patience to read.

Hi Aeval

I think socially I 'learned'.  As a child, I used to try copying school peers in 'making friends' though was woefully bad at it.  As soon as I'd secured a friend, I wanted to immerse myself in my own 'fun activity' and hope they'd join in with theirs (of course, they never did and that was the end of the friendship).  As an adult, I'm totally cool with knowing what is good to say, and what isn't.  The only mistake I often make is laughing inappropriately.  I hate this; I have no idea why I do it.  I think I assume someone's cracked a joke and it is polite to laugh - only I then find this wasn't so.

But communicating and such, I can be reluctant verbally, but I think I'm pretty okay at it.  Maybe that's learned too?

Hi Justin and thanks for the welcome!

I try not to be totally PC-absorbed in spending at least SOME time with my partner, but I can feel agitated and fidgety and continually thinking about what I'll be doing next on it when I'm supposed to be listening to conversation!

Hi, and thanks for the great reply, M

I guess I don't have 'problems' as such - my bad wording in my original post.  My partner is hugely cool with everything.  Blame only exists in my head; for example: if she's down or seeming depressed, I automatically assume it's because of something I must have done (it never is, but I ceaselessly make this same mistake over and over, and am already reacting before she's even had chance to say what IS wrong).  Occasionally, she has pointed out (in humour) that I am NOT centre of the universe and that there might just be other factors that have been causing her problems (she's very disabled and is usually in a lot of pain).  And it is because of this assumption of mine that I seem forever defensive.  I mean: as a child I always felt that I was to blame for everything - but it is only NOW that I'm beginning to wonder if that was so, or just in my head - at least in part.

My partner is really great about it all (she's the one who is convinced that I am an Aspie).  I just spent a quiet few weeks reading and wondering if this really COULD be true, or am I just the selfish, thoughtless, clumsy, slow and lazy person I always assumed myself to be until my partner mentioned Asperger's.  Even if I felt able to seek a diagnosis, I daren't seek an official diagnosis because of my career (where I'm obliged to declare Asperger's as a disability) and formal declarations I'd have to make to the UK's driving licensing people and to motor insurers and the like - when I have been a 100% safe driver for over 20 years now.

So I guess my real problem is wondering whether it could be true that I AM indeed an Aspie.

Thanks, Amy

My partner's wonderful in that sense.  She says she suspected before she ever met me that I was Aspie just by my reactions to some things she said.  And, because before she knew before we ever lived together, she said she also knew what that would mean and made the decision that she'd want to be with me forever anyway.  She prefers me NOT to be in 'helpful' mode (where I usually get it all wrong anyway and do that which is least helpful of all) and just let her get along with doing stuff.  But we talked about it and she said the biggest benefit to her is how I simply don't notice how she is (she has a neurological disability that causes great pain) and therefore I just treat her normally - not delicately or with sympathy.

I just feel bad 'after the event' when I realise belatedly that something she may have struggled with I could have noticed and done myself - except I never, ever do.  I hate that bit and I suppose it's why I've been concerned about AS and whether or not I've simply found a convenient label for being a bad person.  My partner is 100% convinced and, in her experience, all the autisic people she worked with were incredibly different to what was formally portrayed - how she was surprised how tactile some of the most autistic kids were when she'd expected otherwise, the diversity in how sociable or anti-sociable, how communicative or non-communicative...  

Which of course is what I'd LOVE to apply to AS too, but in heart of hearts can't because I don't know HOW specific the criteria are applied.  I have a particular problem with Section B of the DSM diagnostic criteria (I fit all the others easily just as if they were written purposefully for me).  But not Section B.  Stimming in particular, because any jiggling, flapping of cutlery and food, hair twirling etc are involuntary and I don't know I'm doing it or they're things I've seen NT people doing too.  And as said before, I think my use of language isn't overly formal or stilted.  I have problems with volume pitch of my voice (both ends of the scale) but I'm not monotone or anything like that and I think I come across as quite expressive.

I sat down yesterday and tried other online tests.  I score highly in them all but I don't know how valid these are.  Sorry to be a bit of a forum bore; I just feel so uncertain about it.  I don't want to feel like a bad person hunting for a label, but at the same time, I dare not seek a formal diagnosis because of the ramifications of any positive result.

yes, you got it! Why well i'm one of those genius autistic persons and I say you do. And next to the bad sides of it always remember the good things. I mean, things like being practically unable to be bored and being able to anihilate the feeling of bad things and replacing them with logics ect. Yeah there are things you can learn or already have and their not bad

Thanks so much everyone for your advice.

If a formal diagnosis is not necessarily going to be 100% anyway, that's made my mind up for sure.  I wasn't going to seek a dx but wondered whether I should risk everything and go for it, but, other than the unlikely "No, you're not" verdict, I think it will be a grey "maybe" or a slightly better "likely" given the list of things that DO match (I only listed the main ones in my original post).  And for what purpose?  I have to declare it, according to something I read at the NAS site about driving and insurance, etc, and possibly have to declare to my employer too.  I'm not being prejudiced in any way to warrant the need of a diagnosis and my current job is fine because I can work from home, so maybe now is not the right time.

My partner also asked why I was being so hung-up about why I'm worried about not matching the criteria perfectly when, in her opinion, I have more than the minimum in all categories.  She pointed out again how even the LF autistic people she worked with didn't match the set-in-stone criteria in all but 2 of 25 mixed-spectrum pupils.  

I chanced by another site where lots of people were talking about stimming and I may have been a bit too narrow on my perception of that.  Lots on the list I DO do - like thumb-sucking - (I never mentioned THAT one!), jiggling limbs, tapping beats, repeating phrases, tugging hair, chewing tongue, repeated pattern following with eyes...  I had taken the criteria LITERALLY as hand-flapping or exaggerated body movements only.  Thanks AlmightyDoerOfStuff for your post.  Most of what I do (except the embarrassing thumb-sucking) IS involuntary and passes unnoticed unless my partner gives a "told you so" sort of look.  I never realised that this could be usual, so that qualifies Section B of the DSM too when I thought it might not be applying to me.

And Lucy Liu, you're right.  I never got why people seemed to be bored when there was so much in the world in which to be interested.  Don't they have COMPUTERS???  EEK!   I never get bored.  If anything, there is too much to be interested in.  I love that.  I love the visual thinking too - except when it makes me so slow to understand or respond.  But at least I might now know WHY that is!

Thanks so much, Lili Marlene  :smile:

My partner asked me the same about splitting hairs over the diagnosis too!  I think my problem has been reading what others experience, and then taking that and thinking: "so ALL Aspergers have this too" which is ridiculous of me.  Even the diagnostic criteria don't suggest this.

My partner dug out a brilliant site (http://www.as-if.org.uk).  Written by an Aspergian who does not profess to be any kind of 'expert', but has pulled together many resources scattered about the net and has written exhaustively on traits, experiences, issues and the like.  There are even the six sets of commonly-used diagnostic criteria - not annotated with any comments about whether good or bad, so we can make up our own minds (I thought the Attwood criteria were a bit peculiar for me, though - though when I also saw mention of his 'treatment clinic' at his site, I am happy to ignore these criteria completely!).  There is so much at the site and I am now in no doubt whatsoever any longer...

So, it looks like I'm an Aspie who doesn't have an odd voice, who thinks she mostly understands facial expressions (my partner doesn't agree totally), is socially okay when having to be social and who isn't ritualistic.  I grinningly share everything else though!  :grin:

Oh, you could be very right.  ALL of the followiing describe what I meant:

There seems very little information aimed at adults with this.  In talking about kids, one area that is mentioned greatly is that APD also can manifest in poor reading or spelling abilities - but as a child these were two areas I was really quite good at.  But even without reading and spelling problems, it looks like I have some APD issues.

If anyone waves the 'cure wand' at me, I growl.   :lol:

Given that the rest of the list is absolutely a 100% hit in describing me, I'm glad you find literacy is not affected too.  It is WEIRD how, over all these years, I figured I was just like everyone else but couldn't make friends or understand people.  I just thought I was slow and stupid, unemotional towards people - and selfishly obsessed by some favourite hobby or other.  Hence the IQ shock (and my partner pointing out stims I never ever knew I did!!!).  I guess it all overlaps.  I'm stupidly clumsy too, so there's a little bit of that going on too.  Asperger's with bits of other things thrown in.

I've been guilty of comparing myself to the 'male geek' stereotype and thinking that I'm not like this stereotype even if some of my interests are a bit nerdy (pylons, anyone?).  It's all become SO clear over this last month or so in particular.

I feel nothing towards people at all, insomniac66, so what you wrote is interesting and I can totally identify with it.  I guess people don't understand us.

In my teens and early twenties, I thought I'd gone very wrong somewhere biologically because I felt absolutely nothing towards anyone (except in developing any kind of 'crush' - which was more like an obsession than anything emotional).  What I feel for my partner now is the maximum feeling I've ever experienced or am likely to experience for any living person and I feel so lucky to have found this, but I suspect my ability for 'feelings' at this highest limit is still somewhat handicapped compared to neurotypicals.  I think this can be hard to communicate - to explain to someone that they've achieved the impossible by elicitng any kind of feeling from you at all, that this is BIG - when in fact they might feel a tad insulted that you don't generally have feelings towards people.  

Beyond my partner, I feel nothing.  I was upset when my father died.  But I was upset because he'd been the only family member to show any pride in me, or liking for me - and he knew how to fix my rapidly-ailing car.  So, basically, my upset was a selfish 'poor me' thing.  I've just fallen out with my mother but it feels no more than falling out with a colleague at work, or a next-door neighbour - easy to shrug off.  No matter.  I guess many people don't feel like that about their direct families.