I just have to digress a little bit here but EvilZakkie likened the Autism civil rights movement to the Gay Rights movement and I really have to disagree. I think the autism rights movement should be modelled off of the American black civil rights movement rather.
The gay rights movement went through several similar phases to the autistic rights movement.
Firstly, it was mostly parents wanting to discredit the behavior of their children. Secondly, there was a big push to have it declassified as a psychiatric disorder, and to discredit the idea of researching a "cure". Third, culture had to form gradually "under the radar" before it was publicly accepted.
I'm sure that there's things we can learn from the black civil rights movement too, but the issues they had to deal with were very different - mostly because a black person is very obviously a black person, whereas many autistic people are not obviously autistic. If there are similarities I have not spotted, feel free to express them.
At the end of the day, the autistic rights movement is like the autistic rights movement, and nothing else. That being said, I think we can learn a lot from looking at what the gay rights movement has achieved...
My shrink said in response to how I described the way people treat me as: "its like you're black and there's this silent racism".So I think much more can be learned by looking at what the black american civil rights movement has done.
Okay, so what has the black civil rights movement done that we can imitate? There's no separation laws that we can violate, after all...
BTW for you aussies(like EvilZakkie, etc.)
its my understanding that australian blacks are treated even worse than american blacks and australia has further in terms of (aboriginal)minority rights. I mean, from what Ive read they're still viewed as be "subhumans"!
Not sure where you got this idea - there's still quite a bit to go as far as Australian aboriginal rights, but I don't think it's any worse than in America. For example, aside from the real rednecks, racist comments aren't tolerated by most people here.
So that is an issue for Aspies-being viewed as inferior as well as being different. Many urban white liberals see aspies this way and even blacks too whereas they view gays as being different but in an irrelevant and non-threatning way.
I'm talking about similarities between the movements, rather than how successful they've been. The methods used and the issues faced by early gay rights activists (culture building, ceasing to be classified as a "disorder", campaigning against cure research, etc) seem more relevant than methods used and issues faced by early black rights activists, which were mostly about gaining equal rights under law.
If there is some particular methods that we can imitate from the black civil rights movement, then I'd be entirely open to them. Right now, I just can't see any similarities.
What I would wonder is why you are the only one to mention how Aspies cannot be homosexual (I believe it was yourself who made a previous comment about it to a gay male here) whereas everyone else here is more interested in letting people's individual AS have a place to feel safe? Do you have a textbook sat beside you saying "No Aspergers individual shall ever be homosexual"?
Well put.
I just wanted to point out that a few studies have shown that aspies are slightly more likely to be sexually diverse - perhaps because we're not as influenced by social pressure to conform.
I surrender !
Women are impossible to comprehend.
I'm male, and I thought your comments were pretty stupid too.
I guess that means that EVERYONE is impossible to comprehend... *grins*
In a recent study, it was shown that over 90% of males with AS will have had at least one homosexual relationship before reaching the age of 30.
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In other words, left without sexual guidance, a vast majority of male aspies would be homosexual.
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For a male aspie, it could be nearly impossible to ever fully understand the dynamics of a heterosexual relationship as they more than likely do not understand the emotional needs of a female partner.
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Although not always sexual, the male friend would tend to offer a potentially better match for the aspie as the male aspie has what has been described as the "ultimate male brain." With that brain, the male aspie is almost completely unable to fully understand and develop a full relationship with a woman.
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As has previously been learned, aspies, especially male aspies, are rarely capable of mature relationships.
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Many female partners of male aspies believe that unwavering support of their aspie partner will foster a loving and caring relationship. Unfortunately, in most cases, the aspie is merely "play acting" what he believes he should offer his partner. His actions are more often than not carefully contrived actions designed to express feelings that he does not actually feel.
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If the male aspie creates even minor concerns in his partner about his full involvement (loses interest in her needs and interests, obsesses about his own interests, etc), it is highly likely that he is in actuality homosexual and following guide posts to creating the illusion of a full relationship.
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Once the novelty of the relationship ends and the harder task of maintaining the relationship begins, the male aspie will falter as he is unable to be the partner she would want.
I call bullshit on this one. The study sounds dubious at best, deliberately malicious at worst - or possibly even made up, as there is no link to the study.
Given that the vast majority of adult Aspies are undiagnosed, it makes no sense to extrapolate
to the whole population the results gleaned from those individuals who have come to the attention of sexologists; presumably because they have dysfunctional relationships.
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When will sexologists stick their heads out of the lab and see that there is a whole world of people out there getting on very nicely, thank you, who will never need their dubious services?
Not so sure about this - some of the work done by sexologists has been very useful in breaking stereotypes, especially the "Kinsey reports", which were instrumental in getting rid of the negative connotations of homosexuality and other diverse sexual expressions. He's also on my suspected aspie list, which might explain some of the admiration I have for him... *grins*
I thought this might be a good opportunity to see if there was some decent sexuality literature for aspies, and I found this:
"Asperger's Syndrome and Sexuality:From Adolescence through Adulthood"
Isabelle Hénault, Foreword by Tony Attwood
http://www.jkp.com/catalogue/book.php/is...4310-189-0
I haven't been able to find a review of the book, but it has Tony Attwoods stamp of approval, which is good enough for me. Much of the research was conducted out of Tony Attwoods "Minds and Hearts" clinic.
With sexology, like most fields of science, there's good researchers and dubious or sensationalist researchers - but the presence of the latter doesn't disqualify the usefulness of the former.
EvilZ... aspiedr has no idea what its talking about, at one stage its saying that all or most male Aspies are gay, then at the next part acknowledging that plenty of Aspies - diagnosed or not - don't need the 'dubious' services of sexologists.
I agree completely - he's an ignorable nutjob. *grins*
I was more responding to Tig's idea that sexology itself was flawed - dubious or sensationalist claims like aspiedr's don't write off the entire field of research...
What on earth leads you to the conclusion that "most aspies here are suffering from poor relationships"? Yes, there are one or two being quite vocal on the subject, but it is always the squeaky wheel that gets the grease, in this case the research dollars. Relationships that last for over a half century until the death of one partner (in my parents' generation) and over a quarter century so far in my generation, simply do not make it into studies.
Absolutely - I'd actually go so far as to say the majority of people in relationships on this site are pretty happy with their lot. *grins*
Aspies often refuse to accept anything they can not understand. I am a professional. Over 100 professionals participated in the study. Over 1000 male aspies were studied. Perhaps, you should put aside your AS and be open to the study. While you do not have to agree with the findings of the study, you should be open to the chance that all or part of it might be true.
There is little here that defies understanding. You've posted a bunch of contentious and nonsensical statements, no link to figures backing these claims, including additional assumptive claims that even a casual glance at the aspie population could disprove.
There are two possibilities here.
The first is that you are an actual clinical psychiatrist, involved in a study that has turned up an irrational result. In this case, no further discussion is possible until we can see the figures involved in reaching this conclusion.
The second possibility is that you have made the whole thing up for a laugh. This seems the more likely option. You've posted at the end of a contentious thread, implying familiarity with the site. Your suggestions do not seem to go along with the persona of a clinical psychologist. And your other generalisations (e.g. "Aspies often refuse to accept anything they can not understand", "most aspies here are suffering from poor relationships") suggest an unfamiliarity with other psychological studies of aspergers.
In short, big claims require significant evidence, and obviously ridiculous claims require huge amounts of evidence. You have provided no evidence - until you can, your claims will be disbelieved.
-----------------------------16762773sical statements, no link to figures backing these claims, including additional assumptive claims that even a casual glance at the aspie population could disprove.
There are two possibilities here.
The first is that you are an actual clinical psychiatrist, involved in a study that has turned up an irrational result. In this case, no further discussion is possible until we can see the figures involved in reaching this conclusion.
The second possibility is that you have made the whole thing up for a laugh. This seems the more likely option. You've posted at the end of a contentious thread, implying familiarity with the site. Your suggestions do not seem to go along with the persona of a clinical psychologist. And your other generalisations (e.g. "Aspies often refuse to accept anything they can not understand", "most aspies here are suffering from poor relationships") suggest an unfamiliarity with other psychological studies of aspergers.
In short, big claims require significant evidence, and obviously ridiculous claims require huge amounts of evidence. You have provided no evidence - until you can, your claims will be disbelieved.
Eep - not sure what happened there. Ah well, it's mostly interpretable...
Can we please call for a temporary ban?
Nah - This guy's making stupid statements, but he's not really doing anything particularly offensive. Wait until he inevitably crosses a line, and then report him. Until then, he's just a ridiculous figure.
I don't agree that men and women don't have much in common. Some of the people who have understood me best in my life have been and are men. People are individuals - remember that. There is a 'normal' heterosexual male culture that involves drinking, watching football and oogling women, but there are men who don't fit into this culture.
I think as well as culture, a lot of these ideas come from people wanting to complain about their partners using "safe" general comments, rather than specific comments.
For example, if someone had a partner that was messy, they might mention that "Men/Women tend to be less organised", because it would be rude for them to say "My partner is less organised"...
Hey Tigger, you mentioned before in a different thread that you do not like feminisms turning into a fanatical race to make women more like men (and in my opinion make men more like women) but you support its biggest achievement - homosexuality/lesbianism as a lifestyle? That seems to be absolutely paradoxical.
The only place homosexuality/lesbianism belongs is sexual exploration and self-discovery. Lots of young people have homosexual/lesbian encounters when they are young, but thats as far as it goes. Don't get me wrong, I would not stop someone from doing it... their choice, but I don't agree with it.
Logicalconclusion
So just to summarise your last few posts:
Abortion is murder, homosexuality is immoral, and autistics all run around naked smearing poop.
Does that about cover it?