Aspies For Freedom

Full Version: Asperger's 'has no link to crime'
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I've engaged in all sorts of criminal behaviour, but it's not necessarily related to my a.s.. : )  This sort of statistic is too simplistic and misleading, and the conclusions drawn from it seem based upon a shoddy foundation of the association fallacy. It's a way of perpetuating stereotypes.
I can tell you this -- in my several-hundred years as a teacher, it is very rare for Aspie kids to be sent to the office for disciplinary action.

It happens sometimes, of course, but less than among the NT population, and usually because the aspie kid has misunderstood some social exchange with another kid, not because the Aspie set out to start trouble.

rossco Wrote:
Sorry post doesn't make sense. It should read "Now if someone who IS NOT autistic commits suicide they will say it was due to their depression."
Bear with me I am autistic and miss bits sometimes.


Actually, I don't believe that they would be saying very much at all if they commited suicide, autistic or not.RolleyesShyRolleyesShy

Antecedent technicality.
You do have to treat mental illness differently if there's autism involved, though. My own depression only eased off thanks to intellectual understanding of myself--not the sort of emotional understanding or catharsis an NT would benefit from.

You can't blame suicide on autism, though. Suicide is caused by depression; or else it's a rational decision made by someone who'd rather live but sees no other way out than death (ex. martyrdom, death to avoid capture or imprisonment, some cases of euthanasia involving terminal illness). The only way I can see an Aspie being more likely to commit suicide would be that second category--he might lack the strong emotional attachment to life that an NT has, and rationally decide to die.

When it comes to depression-related suicide, though, I think Asperger's may actually allow one to avoid suicide rather than giving in to such impulses. While an Aspie is more likely to be depressed than an NT, a comparison of depressed Aspies with equally depressed NTs should be made. Becuase Aspies not actually in meltdown mode are more prone to rational decision-making than emotional decision-making, they may be capable of thinking more rationally than an equally depressed NT and thus avoid the irrational and/or emotional impulses which can lead to suicide.

My own experience with depression leads me to conclude that my AS literally saved my life. While I spent years in a suicidal state--I remember planning self-murder at the young age of 12--I have never attempted suicide.

The factors which kept me from suicide are, from strongest to weakest:
1. The capability to think rationally about death as the end of life rather than simply an escape from my current problems.
2. The desire to complete suicide in an efficient and failure-proof method, and the consequent knowledge that if I tried it, it would be permanent.
3. My special interests, especially my various "causes" such as banning partial-birth abortion and establishing proper TNR programs for feral cats, which I could not pursue if I were dead.
4. My Christian faith, which treats suicide as a sin--forgiveable, yes; but still something which a God to whom I have promised loyalty would not want me to do.
5. Unwillingness to add another stressor to my emotionally unstable mother's life.
6. The availability of self-injury as a last-ditch method which I could, if necessary use in keeping my emotions stable and dealing with the uncertainty and frustration of an unpredictable world.
7. Stubbornness, plain and simple.

You can see that the first three, and strongest, factors in my avoiding suicide are somewhat AS-related, the first and third strongly AS-related.

I would like to find out whether AS has been a benefit to other depressed Aspies in avoiding suicide--I would have great interest a study comparing people with Asperger's with equally depressed NTs, the factors for and against suicide, and actual suicide and suicide attempt rates among the two groups.

theosoph Wrote:

Quote:
Box 5 Characteristic features of Asperger syndrome that predispose to criminal offending

An innate lack of concern for the outcome can result in, for example, an assault that is disproportionately intense and damaging. Individuals often lack insight and deny responsibility, blaming someone else; this may be part of an inability to see their inappropriate behaviour as others see it.

An innate lack of awareness of the outcome that allows individuals to embark on actions with unforeseen consequences; for example, fire-setting may result in a building’s destruction, and assault in death.

Impulsivity, sometimes violent, can be a component of comorbid ADHD or of anxiety turning into panic.

Social naïvety and the misinterpretation of relationships can leave the individual open to exploitation as a stooge. Their limited emotional knowledge can lead to a childish approach to adult situations and relationships, resulting, for example, in the mistaking of social attraction or friendship for love.

Misinterpreting rules, particularly social ones, individuals find themselves unwittingly embroiled in offences such as date rape.

Difficulty in judging the age of others can lead the person into illegal relationships and acts such as sexual advances to somebody under age.

Overriding obsessions can lead to offences such as stalking or compulsive theft. Admonition can increase anxiety and consequently a ruminative thinking of the unthinkable that increases the likelihood of action.

In formal interviews, misjudging relationships and consequences can permit an incautious frankness and the disclosure of private fantasies which, although no more lurid than any adolescent’s, are best not revealed.

Lacking motivation to change, individuals may remain stuck in a risky pattern of behaviour.

http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/10/5/341

This is what I originally posted in this thread. It seems to have been cut out.


good points, but there are many traits that those with a.s. have that might make them less likely to commit violent crimes, thus providing a counterbalance. for example- people with a.s. generally do not enjoy conflict and this could reduce the tendency to assault.

(violent) impulsivity is listed here as a risk factor related to a.d.h.d., not asperger's itself.

All of these things seem like they could be easily countered by a proper education for the Aspie as a child... Learning the social rules should be enough to keep any Aspie from unintentional criminal behavior. Intentional criminal behavior, of course, is a bad choice and a character flaw in anyone, Aspie or not.

nyanchan Wrote:
This relates to something I remember from years ago.

In 1996 a man named Martin Bryant killed 32 people in a day in Port Arthur, Tasmania, and injured many others. People know this part.

Not many people know this part. After his arrest, he was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome.

I remember this because at the time I knew about Asperger's Syndrome and there was a lot of stuff in the paper about how "weird" he was since school and how people with AS have no empathy, blah, blah, blah....

And I remember thinking, Hang on. The news is making out like all people with AS are like this guy. And yet, there was no-one around to point out that aspies are not all sociopaths.

yeah, if he genuinely has NO epathy, i'd guess he was a psychopath (maybe sociopath) - not an aspie. perhaps he played at being an aspie in hopes of a lighter sentence. i'm not saying he didn't have a.s. -or that no aspie is capable of mass murder- i just don't see how aspergers itself would make us prone to extreme violence.

raptureme200 Wrote:

rossco Wrote:
Sorry post doesn't make sense. It should read "Now if someone who IS NOT autistic commits suicide they will say it was due to their depression."
Bear with me I am autistic and miss bits sometimes.


Actually, I don't believe that they would be saying very much at all if they commited suicide, autistic or not.RolleyesShyRolleyesShy


That comment kinda made me laugh. Big Grin

When someone of the dominant group (NT, white, heterosexual, whatever) does something, no one thinks "Oh, he ate that toddler because he's white" or such. But if someone from the Outsider group does it, everybody shakes their heads and says, "Well, now we know -- blacks eat toddlers."

Members of dominant groups are judged as individuals. Members of non-dominant groups are judged as representing  their group. Example: If a man molests a little girl, it's because he's a child molester. But if a man molests a little boy, it's because he's gay.

The media feed this stupidity constantly.
Rossco, I didn't know you were dyslexic. So am I. Takes me forever to write a post, going back and checking the spelling a million times so no one will say, "Who does he think he is? Stupid *** can't even spell."

Irony is that I'm an English teacher...

Quote:
OK fellas if you have all stopped laughing at me and my dyslexia, does this now make a bit of sense or have I wasted my time in posting (or even given you guys another source of amusement).


Actually, Rossco, I was just poking fun at you; Laughing with you, not at you. I do that to myself all the time, too. Also, I am a bit (understatement) of an aspie/OCD/Perfectionist (last part unofficial... Wink Wink Wink Wink ), and I tend to see the most minor, out-of-the-way, and downright unimportant typos/mistakes/grammar errors in almost everything. For example, in the 4th, 5th, and 6th Harry Potter books, I found at least three spelling mistakes in each; spelling seems to be my strongest area in English.

Of course, I have to refrain myself from making just about every word start with a capital letter (when I'm typing, at least -- doesn't seem to be a problem when I'm writing Shy Smile Shy Smile ...).

Hope I didn't offend/annoy you, I just wanted to make a "joke" (said with 'Forest Gump' accent, to indicate me not being very capable in the area).
Also, have I completely derailed everyone from the main focus of this thread (as I always manage to do, somehow), or is It just me? (Mourns the absence of certain smiles from the "Smilies" posting box Sad Sad Sad Sad ).

Mister_O Wrote:
Little point to think of, we humans have a tendency to label everything. So if an autie or aspie commits a crime, his/her 'distinction' is often mentioned. Works the same as with blacks, and latino's. Alas this tendency also leads to a biased point of view amongst the common mass.


This is why I refuse to believe in the news. Because people are assholes.

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