Aspies For Freedom

TeFor, I had asked the same thing on the Asperger and Marriage thread.  
Although my official dx made sense as far as poor social coordination (deviant behavior which provokes a negative reaction), I do not think it renders me incapable of romantic love.

Would you concur that perhaps a greater percentage of people with AS than without are indeed not capable of a romantic relationship, but by no means all?

Have any of your kids been gifted with AS?  I believe my mom, when alive, saw us as gifted, not disabled (and had the good fortune to see us both employed, after a delay and career change for me)

P.S.  I think 90% of the misery of being single is thinking it is because you are disgraced (presumably by Asperger) and deep down inside thinking that filling the same life roles as everyone else puts a stop to that.

It does not.

Perhaps many of us are single for a damned good reason.

I think God probably intended AS as a gift, but as per the Looking Glass Self (Charles Cooley), inevitably most people seem to see themselves as they are treated, so improving self esteem is important

Rebuff lines typically heard by men with Asperger:

1.  (response to not being able to find a girlfriend) Have you checked the Virgin Islands?
2.  Go back to your SPSS, you aren't going to find a significant relationship in the real world
3.  A helium atom has a better chance of bonding than you do
4.  Ionic bond, polar bond, non-polar bond, and Aspies don't bond
5.  You're a standard deviation
6.  You're so square, you're an equilateral rectangle
7.  (asks a woman for her name)  I'm Virginia (or Carolina or Georgia) and you're the Virgin Islands
8. You're a neutrino, you could pass through a light year of ladies without being noticed
9.  Nighthawk, you're invisible to radar

Damn, there was another but I can't remember it

10.  is that a black hole in your head?

So was every married person before they married, Five.

I sympathize with your thesis that we attract less attention, if any.  It might be we are love shy because of frequent negative reactions, who would want to be uppity and draw more abuse?

But recognize that one feature of our popular fiction is a. the nerd who overconfidently pursues some NT woman "above their status" and b. either the woman or someone else that reacts negatively.

Sometimes it describes our experience, like once in college when I was 20 (1990).

If you simply realize that you are falling into the pattern of liking some woman who seems to have a high status because of the status you perceive, you can put a stop to it.

11.  You are not in my orbit, space man
12.  You're a brilliant physicist but your chemistry sucks (that was what I was trying to remember)

Two new theoretical possibilities

1.  (For Christians) if the Christian woman wants some Christian guy who is as gushy as she is about Jesus (makes her cry and so on, crush on Jesus), it would not work if the Christian guy doesn't relate so strongly to our Lord.  That probably helps explain my limited dating prospects along Christian lines (1 girl in 1997), and explains greater attention from marginal self-professed Christians (2004 and then another for two years) and non-Christians (two in 1994, one last year).  I can't imagine Jesus acting like a mom or dad or uncle or grandfather because people usually do that.  What I can imagine is Jesus like Norman Schwartzkopf, going to trash Satan like Saddam Hussein, but He doesn't want to destroy the Iraqi soldiers who didn't ask for this (and want to surrender) and when they surrender treat them extremely well (eternity in Heaven cleansed of all wrongdoing and human weakness).  Jesus wishes that only Satan and his demons would goto hell.  Satan wants people to join him to stick it in the heart of Jesus.  Jesus is my hero but I'm not going to cry with happiness, sorry sisters.

2.  We have a very wise person at the office who brought up the subject of SELF CONFIDENCE.  

I dunno why but average people tend to respect those who respect themselves and disrespect those who disrespect themselves.

I think people get scared when they think about having a person with poor self confidence on board (the office, I had 3 dozen interviews in my old career between 1996 and 1998 AND in relationships).

Look, I realize poor self-confidence is practically standard equipment with Asperger.  We don't belong on this planet, right?  (Space cadet as an insult, anthropologist on Mars).  

That is why zero tolerance is so important in our schools.  The two of us discussed this too.  Dress all the kids the same (jogging pants and sweatshirts (and a T-shirt for hot days) would be a better idea than a shirt and tie because then poor parents would not be obliged to dry clean them), silence expression of certain opinions during the work day (who you like and dislike, not to mention why), and drive home the message that the reason you are there is to build up skills for the real world (and maybe learn some courses somebody decides makes you well rounded, which serves a purpose if it gets you into college because a high school diploma is just proof of sitting down for four years).  [In high school I longed for the kind of curriculum that wasted a lot of other kids, especially those who did not like me]

So the solution is to build self confidence.  My colleague thinks it can be done almost overnight in response to my suggestion it could not.  But it does seem confusing if we, say, have intelligence, education, personality and character, and are worthy, but can be treated as though we are not.

We need to
1. build up self-confidence of us and
2. put a stop to the destruction of self-confidence that is being tolerated by school administrators, for the sake of the next generation

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Just as an aside, my colleague remarked how meanies in high school would grow up and forget what jerks they were, try to act like adult friends.

In the Marsh Republic, for me, I think all attendees of Thomas Stone High School, Waldorf Maryland, between 1984 and 1988, would need Foreign Ministry clearance to have normalized travel to the Republic.  Since it is very difficult to distinguish good from ill, I almost think the legislature would find it easier to exclude the whole and make exceptions for individuals.  Certainly a few dozen would get clearance, maybe a hundred or two.  But the inspiration for Cool Fool (see signature), who shall remain nameless to you guys, well, his visa request would get stuck in committee, forever.

Let's imagine that by 1990, 141 persons were approved, leaving 1,476 blanket-excluded.  

Marsh English slang: "Go to Waldorf" loosely translates to Go to Hell, but generally is a fighting phrase among Marshes.
Or a T-shirt: I Lost My Childhood in Waldorf, MD.  
Another T-Shirt: If you're driving US 301 and you see Waldorf, turn around.

Hey, Max the Bear is totally right.  Maybe I have made mistakes, erring on the side of caution, mind you, but if one woman a decade ago misinterpreted what I meant literally, that is the price we must pay to require people to say what is on their mind.

God gave people brains, and mouths.  That is what they are for.

I know many people (women are easier to imagine) think leaving a relationship is a way to say something without meaning it.  That kind of power games and so on.  Are unhappy when they miscalculate.  

We need to speak literally and at our word and be heard every bit as seriously.

I believe you are citing research from the following link: http://www.aifs.gov.au/acssa/pubs/issue/i5.html#social

Equal opportunity law cannot go there, friend.  If it did, what would marriage mean?  Love or obligation?  There is no compelling social interest here the same way there is to make sure a person can earn a living regardless of gender, race, or color, for example.

Sorry, bro.  Bottom line: A woman can be an asshole, but it is her loss if she does, especially if you really are a great guy as you suspect you are especially if your friends say you are too.

I'm feeling this, SoulSick.  Some afterschool special on ABC some guy commits suicide over lack of a date, I reacted angrily with "they oughtta....."  but the "solution" could be worse than the "problem".  "Love" based on coercion or fear or compulsion or even a big fat bank account does not equate to "love" based on respect for one's genuine good qualities and a sexual hunger for the one loves (and a hunger to have offspring together).

So, to reiterate my take on the good lives theory
1.  Yes, sexual rejection is offensive
2.  But there is no redress to be had, people have the right to be assholes, all is fair in love and war
3.  Go write a sequel to the movie Valentine's Day if you're really mad.  Make it really gory, blood and guts, just don't use real names, to avoid lawsuits or police surveillance or arrest.
4.  But if you rape or hurt someone in any way

    a. you've just done harm, physical and/or sexual, to another human being, you should be ashamed of yourself, you should never have done it, you should turn yourself in forthwith.  She was a comparatively small asshole, maybe.  You are a major monster, Godzilla by comparison.  
         1. she might become pregnant, or have a miscarriage if she is, felony murder
         2. infected with something you have whether you know it or not
         3. emotionally wounded for years
         4. take a toll on her current love relationship, maybe even sink it

    b. save we the taxpayers some money and plead guilty
    c. go to prison and try not to cause any trouble and try your best to get through your sentence alive.

5.  So for God sake, don't use any research on the Internet as an excuse to rape or shoot up a school.

He Man said, "I only fight when I must"

He played tug of war with a centaur rather than fight, when his intelligence and strength was tested in one episode.

If one woman is an asshole she is stupid.
If one man is a rapist he is a monster.

What did you think of the research I found on the good lives theory?

I do.  Ever read Sybil by Flora Rheta Schreiber?
Wikipedia Sybil.  Sybil revealed her identity posthumously.  She was living in WV.

How so?

Trash a schizophrenic old woman, say she was physically and sexually abusive to her daughter?  The movie was really G rated compared to the book.  Gloss over the sexual abuse by having the psychologist consult with the pediatrician in his final years about the child's inability to urinate.

Sybil was 75 when she died (1923-1998), heck though, that movie in high school brought out every codependent rescue urge in me, I even tried writing "Sybil" into a present-day prime-time TV episode of my own creation (I used to produce my own nonsensical TV series in the back of my mind, wrote down maybe a rare one in fifty, maybe one in 100 or 200 is in computer .txt format).

Later when I worked with WV anti-domestic violence efforts, it was codependence-city.  Cycle of abuse..... Tension, hit, oh I'm so sorry honey I'll never do it again flowers love attention perfect gentlemen
Geez, couldn't they just do it without the hitting
Women poor self esteem  can't tell anyone  blame themselves    starved for love

and there I was, if I had a chance, I'd do better

I didn't have a first girlfriend until 27
(Christy, from long range!  Martinsburg WV - Westminster MD, good thing gas was 80 some cents a gallon in 1997).

I had started driving a year earlier.

Looks like Dad's keeping me off the road (oh no I'll have a crash and Dad will pay more for insurance) kept me dateless (except some flirting from women).  
Dad's death and Mom's permission to drive (October 1 1996) helped me date (by May 1997)

Most of my dates since have been car-less
-Christy (long range) - (Mom was legal owner, I was thereafter)

-Mika (short range)
-Destiny (but I was not using car that night)
-Debbie (short to medium range)
  -if Hayley does date, so is she (medium range)
  
exceptions (car owners, few)
-Carolyn
-Ashley (special ed teacher)
-Keisha (government employee)
-Martha (government employee)

Your access to a car and ability to a car will help you date.