Are children (especially the short lived) so "expensive"? Well if parents decide they must have the "best" of everything; but which child ever decided that for themselves?
In the U.S., a child born with serious medical issues can be very expensive. My daughter cost more than $250,000 before she was a month old. I am very grateful for her life and I would have gladly paid anything. She will have medical issues for the rest of her life but to her father and me she is perfect just the way she is. If we are lucky enough to have another child, we will gladly accept and love him or her just as much, no matter what challenges he or she faces. I like the way anbuend put it:
The idea that some kinds of people are intrinsically less valuable than others is repulsive to me both ethically and in terms of looking as close as I can to reality. I know that if someone looked at my life right now and tallied it up by the standard measurements of what makes life "worth living" in most people's eyes in my society, they wouldn't rate me very high.
If njk has that sort of attitude, it is probably better that he or she not have children at all, whether genetic or adopted. How could any child live up to his or her expectations of "strong/healthy", whether the child is autistic or NT?
What the hell? I am pro-life but I am also pro-eugenics, and this muthaf-ka gives us supporters of positive eugenics a BAD NAME. I hate dumbasses like that! Real Eugenics as practiced in my native Asia is all about smarter, prettier people having more children and criminals having fewer- NOT about abortion. Why didn't you guys say up front that y'all were Autistic (I'm very open with being autistic and proud) and that his views were offensive and discriminatory? If it was me I would've DISSED that muthaf-ka out.
How did this creep get on the list? I usually oppose abortion but in this case, it would have been a great idea for his parents to have done.
Jerry
This is a toughie. First off, I don't believe that NJK was right to say that an autistic person should not have children. He seems like a biatch.
If I were to be pregnant, and my fetus were autistic, I would not abort the child for that reason alone. I DO have qualms (no offense) to raising a SEVERELY mentally *** child (either Downs or anything else). I don't know if I'd abort the child, but I would put him or her up for adoption because I don't know how I'd raise the child. I don't think that's a cause for abortion, but I don't know if I could do it. I DO have a lot of patience though with those who are mentally challenged; I worked with them for some time, and I connected with them just as I would any other person. I have respect for most people; PLEASE don't find me bigoted. I just think that I would find myself frustrated raising the child, and being angry at their incapacity to learn. I wouldn't care if the kid had cleft palate or a missing body part or something like that. Aesthetics has nothing to do with the child I want. I would try to help my child compensate as much as possible.
Well, that's why I said "might", and yeah, I'd keep a child if he/she were autistic. And yes, I know that you often develop an emotional attachment to your child after a certain period of time. Heck, I could even imagine myself having an emotional attachment from day one! I was just being hypothetical, and anyway, the guy who you were talking to was a prick. He had no room to be saying that at all. :mad:
Aspie-bating! Bad! Bad! Bad! :mad:
Jay, I see what you mean.
Jess, if you were pregnant with a Down's baby, you wouldn't know whether the baby was going to be severely ***. Most Down's children are only mildly *** (some are in the normal range on IQ tests) and can talk, walk, go to school, and learn to read and write.
And yet, doctors continue to recommend amniocentesis and abortion. They have categorically decided that this entire group of people doesn't deserve to live.
I know that's probably not what you mean, but you make it sound like you object to this only on the grounds that "those who are not severely *** etc." will also be affected.
Personally, for me, the only things I do feel "justified" to get rid of genetically, are conditions that are very aggressive or degenerative (like some that tend to trigger a lot of tumours etc.), or that come with a lot of severe physical problems like heart and lung defects or very severe epilepsy (not controllable with medication) that provide very little chance ot survival past a young age.
I do not think genetically modifying DNA to fix those types of problems would change who the person is, whereas anything that tries to "fix" a person neurologically, would.
No, what I meant is that the doctors are giving parents a false impression of the child's condition that causes many parents to choose abortion, even though the doctors ought to know better.
Unfortunately, that is the case.
When amniocentesis testing for Down's first began, about 30 years ago, parents were told that these children were almost always severely *** and probably would not live past early childhood because of physical defects, such as heart problems, etc. (which can now be corrected surgically with modern technology). As a result, many parents chose abortion because they felt it was "justified" for the reasons you stated above.
That is why I mentioned severe defects (ones that can't be fixed), but yes I do know what you mean, although I do not quite understand the motivation, really.
I guess it is financial - even a child with few problems still costs the state or health system more money than a kid with none :cry:
Incidentally, I have recently been in contact with a lady who has a son with a very rare mix of Downs and Turner syndrome (which normally occurs only in girls, but because one half is Downs, he still turned out male), and interestingly enough, this peculiar mix has actually erased all of the physical characteristics of BOTH Downs and Turners. He still has a lot of learning difficulties and a very unique character, but there are no physical problems of either of those syndromes. It is funny how two supposedly "bad" things can actually eliminate a lot of the individual physical problems.
Hmmm. My boyfriend and I are both aspie. We're having a baby. I'm a little scared, but I already have one child who seems quite aspie to me and he's the joy of my life. A number of people have told me (when we were still in the "considering" phase) that it would be "selfish" of us to have a child since we have a higher chance of an autie child. From my point of view, why would I want to bring more NT's into the world?
I think the guy was scared, in denial, and self hatred, and taking it out on you guys (Amy and Gareth) whom I have not met but like already!