Aspies For Freedom

Hello to everyone - I am glad to read that people without Aspergers, like myself, are still welcome here.

Some time ago I met a guy who spoke of how lonely he felt at our university, as he did not know anybody and did not find it easy to make friends. Although I did not know him well at all, I invited him to hang around with me and my friends when we shared breaks, because I know how hard it is not to have people to talk to, especially over a long time period. This guy also has autism.

As I got to know him, I realised that we had nothing in common, in terms of our interests and beliefs. In most areas we are polar opposites. I am now also much busier and rarely have time to meet with people, and when I do have this time, it makes sense for me to spend it with the people who are my good friends. While I have told this guy perhaps four times that I do not have the time to meet with him this year, he keeps asking me to meet up with him, and waits for me outside the one class that he knows I have, even though I have to leave straightaway.

I understand that I shouldn't be ambiguous when I speak to him, but I'm finding it really hard to work out how to get my message across without being hurtful. My message is this: "Yes, I am not busy 24/7 and therefore I could conceivably meet with you at some point, but I need to use the time I have spare for other things (like work, volunteering, study, and preparing my research project... as well as the necessities like time to myself, eating and sleeping!), and when I DO have time for friends I'd like to spend it with the people I relate to and get along with." While I don't think we have anything in common, I still KNOW that this guy is a good person.

I think there is nothing wrong with reaching out to someone who is lonely - but I don't like the idea of "pretending" to be friends with someone who I don't get along with, and mostly disagree with, simply because I feel bad for them. I need your advice as to whether you think that simply telling the truth, the way I did above, would be perceived as hurtful, or simply factual.

Don't put on an act for sympathy for him. It's better to be honest in a fair way, and tell him that you can only be friends in school time, or whatever.

He can then turn his attentions to other possible girlfriends, and opportunities.

If he has different interests to yours, maybe you can find out about some clubs or societies that relate to his interests and tell him about them.  Say he's interested in table tennis, find out the times and location where they meet.  Hopefully, it will clash with your schedule, so you can't go, but he can go by himself!

Other than that, I can't see how you can dump him without hurting his feelings.  Sometimes it's better to be cruel to be kind.  At the moment, he's getting mixed messages off you.  He thinks you still want to be friends and spend time with him, because you haven't told him that you don't want to.  Aspies can tend to take things very literally, so if you say, Oh, I'd like to meet you, but I'm afraid I'm very busy, and you keep saying this, an NT person is going to get the hint fairly quickly that you're not interested, but an Aspie is likely to believe that you're genuinely busy and not just being polite and trying to avoid hurting their feelings.  It's better to be totally honest, although be as kind and polite as possible with it.  I think what you suggested you might say would be okay.

Bright Skies, what you ask about is a biggie. Maybe the biggie. And a biggie that remains in play with the autistic all the time.

People run away from the autistic.
Even other autistics run away from the autistic.
Even people whose professional life is caring for the autistic, run away from the autistic.

There's a guy from the states, who heads up TEAACH. It's not an approach that I go for. But this guy, I think his name is Gary Mesbidov (or similar), really impressed me when on a two day course which he gave in the UK.
All the time he spoke, I was feeling and thinking, what sets him apart, is that he is not running away from the autistic. Even, and most importantly, in the ideas with which he explained things about the autistic: he wasn't running away from the actual encounter with the actual autistic person; he wasn't running away and into his own explanations.

Why do we run away from the autistic.
Because we want to live out our own time and life, and in its and our own terms; just as you describe.

What do you gain if you don't run away from the autistic?
Well, I think, just about the best truth on just about everything.
The autistic, I think, may well have brought the human race just about anyhting of any enduring value. I would go with Temple Grandin on that one.

What do you lose if you don't run away from the autistic.
Maybe the joyous complacency of you own senses. The power of your own person.

There's then a big inclusion question. A big ethical service question.
Just why are you the mark? Just why was it not possible for you to walk past the autistic, on the other side of the road?

Just what could you and such an autistic build, by way of joint human understanding and relation, if you worked through this for the rest of your lives.
How useful could that be for the inclusion of the whole autistic constituency? How useful for the NT world which needs to get this autistic inclusion thing better done?

Autistics can be both hyper tough and resilient, and unimaginably sensitive. Might weather the severest crisis. Or be scarred for life by something seemingly "normal".
Who is to tell in an instance.
Everyhting to do with answering your question probably lies within you; but don't be put off if you cannot immediately decode what you already sense and know.

I have something very similar going on right now in my own life. The person in question finding it difficult to deal with the closeness we have established. It's very important that I do not withdraw from what has been opened. And important that the other person grow into generalising what they have with me. What they and I do, that person can actually do with everyone: and what they have done with me shows that; and they have to be supported into knowing that in their own person.
In practice it proves very, very difficult. In the setting I am in, others have been mobilised to also support this other person in doing what they have to do, to generalise what they first established with me.

Maybe the key lies not with this autistic aquaintance. Not even exclusively with you. But more with the social setting of your own life.
How willing would your friends be, and the people and settings your life happens with be, to shuffle up on the bench, and make accomodating space for one more (autistic) person.

BiddyToy, I object to your frequent use of the words "the autistic". Particularly these phrases -
People run away from the autistic.
Even other autistics run away from the autistic.

When do people run from us? We are not wild animals. When do autistic people run from other autistic people?
To any people on the specturm who read this forum, and may be newly diagnosed, you are certainly giving a scary impression of life.

If it was in the poetry section such drama might be appropriate, but I think it's going overboard. And I find it personally offensive.

Amy, would you clarify something.
Are you here speaking as another poster, or as a site administrator telling someone not to do something.

I can answer your questions, but I don't wish to continue a cycle of offending you.
So, if you could lay down some guidelines about: what words or phrases would not offend you: and what can and cannot be talked about, so as not to offend you.

I take on board what you say about newly diagnosed people browsing the forum, and will reflect on that.

Do you see anyhting in your post that might conceivably offend me?

I was telling you how I feel. I felt it was clear.

I have no idea if something offended you, and I assume you would say if it did.

Since this person is lonely and has few friends, he might consider you a friend.  Some people have a hard time distinguishing between aquaintances and friends.  (I do)  You also define friendship as "people you have common interests with"  and "people you like to spend time with".  I have found some people also have "friends" for other reasons:  people they can get homework answers from, rides from, someone who will listen to them when they have problems even friends who just like to go shopping with.  That may sound like "using someone" but I am not surprised since I have found that many NT's use people all the time.  So are you using a friendship as proof to others that you can seemly accept someone with diversity (translate disability)?

You seem to be friends with this person because you feel sorry for him, is that all?   Maybe he likes you because of your unique and interesting characteristics not because you are the only person who will talk to him.  He may be seeking you out because he likes to spend time with you.  Can't you appreciate that?

Could you not ask him to join you at your volunteer job or when you are studying in the library?  You do not have to talk much, just spend some break time together.  You must have some regular routine you take part in.  

I really find it odd, that I, a person who is accused of lacking empathy, should be giving this type of advice to someone who apparently in supposed to have empathy.  You have not tried to truly see the relationship from his point of view:  only that he lonely.  Yes, it is difficult for some people with autism to meet people and make friends but often it just takes longer.  But they can be really good friends with time.  If you really do not value this person for who he is then you really do not deserve for him to call you his friend.  There is a huge difference between tolerance and acceptance.  You do not even seem to want to tolerate this person so you can not claim that you accept diverse people.

Thank you very much everyone for your responses. This is exactly why I felt I should ask for advice here - I think on the Internet, you're more likely to get honest and thought-out opinions instead of the quick brush-off responses that one might get in a conversation. I'll reply to everyone:

Amy:
Thanks for your opinion, it strikes a chord with how I'm feeling - the idea of "being friends out of sympathy", and the problems associated with this. It's actually hard to articulate how I feel - it's not that I'm putting on "an act" of liking someone that I dislike out of sympathy. I tend to like everyone who I feel is intrinsically a "good person" and dislike people who I feel are "bad people", regardless of how abrasive I might find someone's personality. So I do not dislike this guy - I just find it really difficult to get along with him, to find things to talk about, to relate to what he likes (he likes football, I hate it; he's interested in maths and computers, I don't have a clue; he ranks the economy and business as highly important, I prioritise other things; he eats mainly meat, I'm a vegetarian; he dislikes most of the people at uni immediately, I tend to like people unless they do something bad; he's anti-union, I'm pro-union; he's right-wing politically, I'm left-wing... etc.) I feel like we ran out of things to talk about long ago, and mainly spend our time disagreeing (not fighting, just never sharing a viewpoint), which has become difficult to enjoy or sustain. I don't think he views me as a potential girlfriend, simply a friend.

EnglishLulu:
Thanks for your advice about suggesting clubs for him to join. I told him as soon as I met him about the clubs around uni, in fact the clubs anywhere, and how they'd be a great way to make friends. The problem is that he tends to be dismissive of people, particularly at our uni, and says he dislikes the "types" of people who share his interests. Specifically, he thinks the people who would share his interests would be either "nerds" or "irresponsible party-going students". I have not managed to persuade him otherwise. Perhaps I can make this suggestion again however. And it's reassuring to know that what I suggested I might say to him mightn't be viewed as offensive, because my biggest fear, I think, is that I might be really hurtful in the way that I deal with this.

Biddy Roy:
An extremely intelligent and spot-on post, to be honest, full of points that I agree and disagree with - but all important issues. Any action I take in this situation will have many implications, and my mind keeps churning over this. You're right that life is easier, if less rewarding, when we choose to drift along unchallenged (and each of us will see different things as challenging). I think a problem with "gaining from not running away" is that in this situation, with this person, I feel we have reached a stalemate. Things may not move anywhere, because beyond the differences in opinion, there are also communication issues (a typical conversation with this person, is mostly about this person). Where is the opportunity for deepening this friendship and for growth, if we talk mostly about this person, and about his topics of interest? (If anyone else can answer this question I'd appreciate it.) My friends are fantastic and happily include this person if he's there, although I would say there is a lot of awkwardness.

M:
Thank you for your honesty - it is good to hear what people around me mightn't dare to say. I will answer your points equally honestly. In terms of "using" a friendship to proclaim my "tolerance"... I don't think I am doing this. As you know autism is not obviously visible, so generally people have no idea whether this person has autism or not, at least not the technical term. I have just told my friends this is someone who has found it difficult to make friends at our uni and would they mind if he hung around us sometimes - they can make their own conclusions about him. At the same time, it has been hard for me at times to persist with the friendship because this person often (probably unintentionally) offends me and my friends with some things he says. So then this raises the issue that if this person didn't have autism, if I weren't telling myself, "Oh, he probably didn't mean that the way it sounded", I would have backed away from the friendship very early on, because I would have felt like I was getting insulted a lot. The fact that I haven't raises a lot of questions for me, including one that I find morally difficult: the idea of being friends with someone that you wouldn't otherwise be friends with if it weren't for the fact that they had a condition that "explains" their behaviour.

I certainly appreciate that this person must like me for who I am because he is so vocal about disliking almost everybody. I don't think he'd have anything to do with me after the first time we met, if he'd decided he didn't like me. I am not friends with him because I feel sorry for him - it is because we now have somewhat of a shared history, because I know he is a good person despite the fact I don't get along with him, and because I think that one's environment is important and if you have people to talk to about what's going on in your life, not only do you feel better, but you are also better equipped to talk to other people who you might relate to more strongly. If you don't have the opportunity to talk, then meeting new people is going to be even more difficult, compounded with the social difficulties associated with autism - for example, when I come back from the 3-month summer holidays I initially find it awkward talking to so many people again. I agree with you that I am not seeing this situation truly from his perspective because I think I am trying to alleviate how bad I feel. This feeling of "badness" comes from struggling with my own weaknesses and worries, and not from any sense of pity towards him.

As for the issue of inviting him to my volunteer job or to study with me - although I can act extroverted, I am actually very introverted and I need  my own time and things that give me a separate sense of identity. The idea of asking someone along to the things I do privately - particularly someone I find it difficult to get along with! - makes my stomach sink, and I cannot explain that in any other way.  :oops:

I apologise about this lengthy and probably tedious post but as Biddy Roy said this is an issue that, for me, requires a lot of thought and reflection - and input! - and yet I have nowhere to turn in real life. If anyone has any more input, issues, arguments, ideas, viewpoints, anything, I would love to hear it because I really need to discuss and think about this issue - to this point it has just been locked in my head (as you may be able to tell by this essay-length reply  :razz: ).

One idea - show him this thread and let him read it.    
Alison

This is not necessarily true, especially the last point I totally disagree with. A persons personality plays a big role in social connections and autistic people have personalities too. I can be very sociable among people I know well and they certainly don't run away from me. I am the one running away from others!! But that is my own choice to do so.

Bright Skies, you are probably encountering the typical body language and communication dilemma where that person is not able to "get the message" by reading through the lines that you don't really want to meet with him. There is no other way, but telling him in a more direct way about how you feel. This might be difficult and might be hurtful, but he'll get over it. Maybe you can suggest to him joining some activity like chess club or so.

Good luck!

Me too  :cry:

Definitely say it out loud.  

I don't believe that ignorance is bliss; I hate going through life wondering constantly if the compliment is real or "just to be nice."  

The truth may hurt, but it is definitely best in this case.  I would like it far better if I had been told off directly by those girls I forced myself to call, instead of wasting so much energy on something so futile.