Aspies For Freedom

If you see the autistic as a relationship, a particular and often problematic relationship: then is what Marc Littman has done, with his son, and in writing this book, something which is all negative.

Look at this from Littman's point of view.
He's locked out of relationship with his son: because of his own ignorance and lack of understanding; because of his clumsiness in relating to his son.
He does something. He is a writer, so that's what he does. That's what he uses as a toolbox.

He tries to dig into what is separating him from his son, from his NT end of things, maybe the best way he knows how.
Maybe what he does shows more concern and understanding of things NT, than it shows understanding of his son.

But, do we end with something that is better than nothing.
Do he and his son end with something of any value at all.
Are his son and he in any better position than they were before this was tried.

So that's digging, at what sees people separated, from the NT end.
What digging can be done at the non-NT end.

This metaphor follows from viewing the autistic as something having to do with a relationship.
Two or more people are fairly absolutely separated, in terms of experience and understanding. That is something complex: each party has something of a complete take on the world, the whole shooting match. These takes are what come between them.
It's like miners on both sides of a roof-fall blockage, both working to clear it.

With the autistic, where what we call NT, is something very powerful: progress requires that this NT do a great deal; and, ultimately, change their act a great deal too.
But those who are not NT, can also attend to what is between them and the NT. The mutual incomprehension can also take a remedial input from the non-NT.

An alternative is to see all the movement as needing to come from the non-NT: and this tends to be the NT default; and a source of much neglect, suffering and abuse.
Equally, it can be seen as all down to the NT: where some might reccomend that the non-NT tool up with counter-offensive weaponry.

I favour the relationship/cooperative model.
Possibly because I'm dyslexic.
Possibly because my work sees me wanting to do something for the best, by my students, with what is currently possible.

Again, my view of things is not in competition with anyone else's.

My position is that dyslexia is on the autistic spectrum.
That is an understanding that is gaining ground in professional circles.
It is an understanding you could expect to hear at any professional conference on the autistic spectrum.

Others can of course argue for an alternate understanding.

There is another, older view of the dyslexic, which views it only in terms of "specific learning difficulties"; difficulties which are often seen as having to do with reading and writing.

Yes I am.
Certainly as verb and noun.

Why is that unacceptable?

You seem to be saying something very important to you here Amy.
And not something I anticipated.

What do you mean by "our 'name'"?

You have said something similar about what I post before Amy.

I cannot currently see what you say as justified or accurate.
It is not my understanding of what I do.

None the less, it is clear to me that you here speak with great conviction.
That sees me assume that what you say must contain some insight.

But, right now I cannot see or share that insight you offer to me.

Could you say more on just why, despite what I post seeming to see the opposite, you see me as doing this with my students?

You make a point about "offending", by substituting woman, black and Catholic for autistic, in my post.

I respect that in doing this you had something you wished to convey from your own experience: and I don't challenge that.

But I have to be concerned about your repeatedly expressed judgement that I am being offensive.
I want to learn more about just why you experience me as offending you.
But I have to defend myself against some of your suggestion that I am being offensive.

By that I mean, I accept I am offending you, for that is what you say is happening.
But I am concerned with the suggestion that I am being offensive as such.


The term autistic does not bear ready comparison to woman, black or Catholic.
That former term only came into common parlance with Kanner and Asperger.
Even if we stretch for the immediate antecedents of this pair, we are not going back much more than a century or two.
The term is also specifically a term of medical analysis, certainly if we attach it to Kanner and Asperger.
It is also a term which has always been, and continues to be contraversial: there is not, and has never been unanimity about what it does, could or should mean.

Woman and black have biological bases which have not been established for autistic as a term.
They have clearly been in use for an infinitely longer period.

Catholicism is a faith and cultural phenomenon: something not claimed in the use of the term autistic.

Consider a post where someone was looking at vehicles in terms of their being sports-cars or haulage-trucks, or in terms of their social meaning or environmental footprint.
It would not make sense to substitute the technical terms of such a post, with the names of manufacturers, or the names for species of animals.

In order to so substitute, it seems to me, you would have to be substituting like for like, in some sense.
So, for example: you could argue offense, by substituting man for woman, or vice versa; or you could substitute Muslim for Christian.

I know I am kind of switching topics here, but I wonder if Biddy Roy is on to something here.  

I am dyslexic as well and had been officially diagnosed.  

There is a website called  The Institute for Neuro-Physiological and they list both Autism and dsylexia as a Neuro-Developmental Delay problem.

Language as a child was very hard for me and I couldn't express it or understand it at all.  I was very invtroverted before school ever started, but when it did start I no clue what was going on in the classroom.  

Of course when I was younger I also hard time playing with other kids, I didn't understand what I was supposed to do...

But let me tell you something I still wonder to this day if dyslexia was more the culprit then AS...To me when I child has a hard time understanding there surroundings via language it can also be on the autistic spectrum as well.

I got diagnosed with at the age of 26 years old with Dyslexia and only recently by another pshcylogist I got diagnosed with AS.

It is something to think about...

Woman and black can designate a minority group.
That usage does not exhaust their meaning.
Woman or black could be a majority in some instances: as in, black people are in the majority in South Africa. Women are in fact generally not a minority, but a numerically equal grouping with men.

The term autistic is different.
Sexual gender and racial type involve very different matters than does the autistic.
Whether or not the autistic involves a minority, is not a central matter in the autistic: or, if it is taken to be central, that is a matter of opinion; legitimate though that opinion might be.

I accept that you are saying that you cannot find meaning in some of what I post: but that is not the same as there being zero meaning; that would require that no-one did or could find any such meaning.

Just to help me, if there is something you do not understand in this post, could you tell me in detail exactly what you do not understand.

With respect, I have not said such a thing.

Why would I not understand?

You seem to wish to convey dismissal of what I posted.
The action you are engaging in seem quite clear.
There is no real need for me to further analyse the language you use.
You have expressed, I have understood.
There is no confusion.

If I genuinely was confused by what you were doing in your use of language, then I could ask you to clarify or augment.

I understand you, because I set out to do so, I make the effort.
If I did not understand you, I would not allow myself to blame you, not allow myself to denigrate you.

It means "these are non-sensical words".

You could do further pattern analysis. Your choices in the sequence of letters does not seem quite random. It would be possibe to pull out selection patterns.

Translation protocols would be necessary, for the "English" translation you request. For that you would have to provide enough "speech" to allow your language to be abstracted.
So, I would suggest, such translation is not worth pursuing.
It's not like the Rosseta Stone, we can quess you do not intend these words to communicate anything specific: there is no message to be decoded.

If in fact these words mean something in some other extant language, I don't have to know that.
I know, or I think I know what you set out to say. Surely that's what talking to another person is about.

If there is a "private" message in these words, and you can anticipate I was not going to understand what that message was; then why would you  direct that message to me?

So, I would stick with the main message you intended.
Which I take to be that you are suggesting that the language I was using was as intrinsically undecodable as your "aerterg oihrfre gehneryh ertvroifiwoif".
We disagree on that of course, but that needn't stop me understanding what you are saying to me.

On page 2 I said:
"Firstly, my working assumption is: that incomprehension, of them by another; is often a primary, and distressing experience, for those understood as being on the autistic spectrum.
Secondly, a next working assumption is, that for me to empathise with those on that spectrum whom I professionally serve: it is valuable for me to experience, in my own person; others not comprehending me, although I am doing my best to give of my best understanding. "

I couldn't find anything else which could be misinterpreted as me saying I "caused confusion".

I do not set out to not be comprehended.
Neither do my students.
But, my students meet with not being comprehended, all the time.
I simply set out to live my life, striving to communicate all the time.
When I encounter not being comprehended, I can learn from my own experience of not being comprehended, in order to understand something of what my students go through.

Beyond that, I believe there is much more to be said about the general features of comprehension and incomprehension, and in the interests of those on the autistic spectrum.

I'll reflect on your assessment Gareth.