Aspies For Freedom

Thought this might be of interest... (source in French)

Asperger, high functioning autism or BPD disorder?

Introduction:
Connection between borderline personality and asperger disorder. There isn't a lot of studies (euphemism) about this even if both disorder share common behaviors. <snip>

continued:

http://www.aapel.org/asp/AGaspergerornotUS.html

BPD is supposedly very common, some stats say 1 in 10, so 10% of aspies could have it anyway.
But I am certain that they are separate conditions, I have met aspies with BPD, and many without, and there is certainly a difference.

Amy, could you please explain your view of the difference? What are aspies with BPD like?

They show the signs of BPD. And most aspies don't.

I understand someone with BPD has some kind of self injuring addiction (drugs/alcohol), is suicidal, has mood swings and anger attacks/temper problems. Is this right?

The BPD Diagnostic Criteria
DSM

According to the DSM IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th Edition) ‘A person who suffers from this disorder has labile interpersonal relationships characterised by instability. This pattern of interacting with others has persisted for years and is usually closely related to the person’s self image and early social interactions. The pattern is present in a variety of settings (e.g. not just at work or home) and often is accompanied by a similar lability (fluctuating back and forth, sometimes in a quick manner) in a person’s affect [mood] or feelings. Relationships and the person’s affect may often be characterised as being shallow. A person with this disorder may also exhibit impulsive behaviours and exhibit a majority of the following symptoms:

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self

4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)

5. Recurrent suicidal behaviour, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behaviour

6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

7. Chronic feelings of emptiness

8. Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms
Anyone with six or more of the above traits and symptoms may be diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. However, the traits must be long-standing (pervasive) and there must be no better explanation for them (for example a physical illness, another mental illness or substance misuse).

Had a lot of personal experience with people with BPD John???
Where did you pick that info up, I have never heard it, or experienced it.

Please don't make a statement of fact if there is no real evidence for it, it will be very confusing to others who come here seeking advice.

Is there any particular reason that you think that?
To me it seems to be a collection of problems that when they come together, cause a lot of suffering for the person with it, and those around them.

But what about people with BPD who are suffering and want help?

There are no positive sides with it.

In the past some problems were ignored like premenstrual syndrome, and people asked for recognition. The same for people with severe depression, they didn't want to be told to just get over it.

If everything is normal, then its actually easier for NTs to ignore. They seem to prefer to lump all conditions together under the 'we are all the same really' excuse. And many people get sent to prison who actually have undiagnosed mental illnesses that they need help for.

Far from NTs inventing illnesses to tell normal people they are crazy, it is much more common for people with problems that they want hlep for to be ignored.

The conspiracy theorists are ultimately shooting themselves, and the rest of us in the foot.

Well your experience is less than mine and I don't agree I'm afraid.
What about aspie people with BPD? Do they show empathy that contradicts their autism dx? Do you have BPD and show this empathy? Have you ever taken the EQ - empathy quotient test?

The eq test was made for aspies, not dim sociable people.

I dont understand the rest of what you are saying about gf etc, but it doesnt matter.

The EQ (Empathizing Quotient) test in the Guardian was done by Simon Baron-Cohen if I remember right, same as the Systemizing Quotient (SQ) are different.

Yes it by Baron Cohen as part of his extreme male brain theory.
It tests empathy, not emotional intelligence, that's something different.

Well many aspies have taken it and get very consistent low results.

You know a lot about it considering you have never taken it and didn't know what it was.

Can you give me next weeks lottery numbers by any chance?   :wink:

I think something to consider about people who have been dx with BPD is that they almost always (but not exclusively) have experienced very traumatic and abusive childhoods.  Some people (e.g., M. Linehan) believe that people with BPD have an extremely difficult time interpreting their gut emotions.  

So, let's say you feel those butterflies in your stomach when you are with a partner--if you have BPD you may not know whether to be frightened or overjoyed.  You try to figure out what you are "supposed" to be feeling by relying on cues from your partner, but those cues are fallible and hence your interpretations will be also.  As a result, even though you are extremely tuned into another person's feelings, you are unsure of your interpretation and so make rapid adjustments.  

Whereas I can see how a person with BPD and ASD have difficulty understanding social cues, I think the basis for that difficulty is different.