...at a conference. She said she met someone who told her about how children can sometimes act up more before they reach a new milestone. This I agreed with and is definately true of my daughter. Then he told her that most people have a triangle going on in their head and that they bounced back and forth between fear and love. His example was a surprise party where everyone jumps out at you...first you're scared but then you're happy. He told her asperger's kids can't make this bounce thing happen so they respond with fear and acting out. She seemed really relieved to hear this so I didn't bother to point out that I never have heard of this and it wasn't until later that I wondered why 2 points made a triangle. Then she told me his advice: everytime my daughter starts to spin or do some other socially unacceptable behavior, I should say as sternly as possible "NO!" in her ear. I was taken aback and pointed out that this sounded like ABA which everyone knows I'm against. I explained that although I want her to learn how to act in the classroom, right now spinning is how she soothes herself when she's trying to express herself and having problems. I do try to stop her from becoming a slave to certain rituals. For example, she likes to take a certain route that's time consuming from the car to our front door. When we have time and she has been well behaved, she can take that way and I keep her company. When we are in a rush, she can not and she knows the difference.
The spinning thing is different. She likes to pretend she's either a ballerina or an ice skater when she does it for fun. When she's in front of a group of people attempting to talk, it becomes a little twirl in between phrases. She's usually starts to stutter a little and breathe quickly. I realise it might not be ideal for high school, but she's only 5 years old! She just began raising her hand to talk in class two weeks ago, so she's very excited and I'm very proud.
Anyway, the teacher really is great and was doing a wonderful job even before the aide was finally hired. I know it's hard on her sometimes, so she's always open to advice. I just need some info to direct her towards. Any suggestions?
Shouting or raised voice in the ear will cause a stress reaction and make things worse, that person gave you really bad advice. Luckily you have the sense to see that.
I have not heard of the triangle thing and it doesn't really make sense.
Does your daughter have OCD and aspergers?
My daughter has been dx'd with asperger's. The spinning is definately a stimming thing but in a functional sort of way. Some other things were more like tics(if there's a difference), like a funny cough noise she made for a while and more recently rubbing at her mouth until the skin broke. She might eventually be dx'd OCD for stuff like that but she usually can drop them pretty easily. Spinning makes her happy so I put it in a different class. Like I said she mainly pretends to be a character where spinning is acceptable like a ballerina. It's been more recently that she's made this huge jump in ability to communicate that she sometimes leans on spinning.
I agree with you Ryuujin that logic is the way to go b/c she is analytical and that is the way I have always approached teaching her. We are so alike that I kind of feel that I have the "inside track" on how to reach her. The problem is more other people. Her teacher was looking for more input from an expert type and runs into Mr. Autism Expert at a conference and without something else to balance it with, she takes it as fact. I guess what I'm asking for is:
1)Amy, could we please have an education section?
2)Can all of us start to come together to start to propose an alternative message on how autistic kids can be educated?
I know this is hard because it implies some sort of one size fits all model but somehow I think most of agree that we are against a cure but okay with treatment of comorbids. Can't we do this with school? Like against ABA but for speech therapy? Maybe if we made a list, then we could have a poll? Here are mine that I can think of off the top of my head:
Against
ABA
forced segregation
for
speech therapy
social stories
inclusion/blended classrooms/aides
I would reccommend reading Michelle Dawson and Simon Baron-Cohen to educators. There was a social story book I really liked by a guy named Baker from a SUNY... I can't remember the rest because it's back home.
I would ask they avoid Lenny Shaffer and Lovaas.
I like organizations like the Bubel Aiken Foundation and here in California, Kids Included Together(they train afterschool groups to include kids that are different).
The point is we need to provide an alternative for the hoards of parents and educators looking for advice. I'd like to hear what everyone else recommends.
I was thinking of an education section yesterday when I read your post, and you have said it yourself now too, so we can certainly set that up. :smile:
What I can not understand is how these people think that the child is supposed to understand that the yelling "No" in their ear has anything to do with what they are doing. If they said something quietly such as "please come and sit down here and do listen to the story", I might understand what to do.
All my life, I am having people glare at me, yell at me, play mean trick at me, exclude me just because they can not explain to me what I should be doing. The few that have figured out that I understand specific verbal or written instructions have often manipulated me which was worse.
After a while, the child might actually act like the rest if someone accidently explained what they were supposed to do. They might even seem "normal" for the rest of childhood school years only to relapse or develop what seems as "mental health problems" or rebellion in pre-teen or teen years. And then they will be not fitting in as adults. This is why I do not think that treatments or therapies work at all.
There was a social story book I really liked by a guy named Baker from a SUNY... I can't remember the rest because it's back home.
His name is Jed Baker, Ph.D. and the name of the book is "The Social Skills Picture Book: Teaching play emotion and communication to children with autism". I have photocopied excerpts from the book, I want to get the book but it'd cost me about $60 CAN to get it of course, the book is a nice reminder of some of my major ineptitudes. :oops:
If you wanted to give her some direction, then if you just let her know that twirling looks "a bit silly" in front of others as opposed to actively saying "no", then when she starts to actually care about her self image in the years to come she'll probably stop (Nobody wants to look "silly") or she'll just forget about it.
I agree that a logical explanation would help, but I wouldn't use the word "silly." That's like making fun of the child's behavior.
I would tell her that it is OK to twirl on the playground at recess, or when she is playing at home, but that she should try not to do it when she is talking to other people, just because it's something that most people don't do during a conversation.
It's quite likely that she does not even know she is twirling when she talks, because all her mental focus is on the stressful act of creating speech.
My son used to fidget at his desk a lot when he was younger, and he often didn't notice what he was doing. One year, the teacher tied a string around the bottom of the desk, so that when his foot touched it, he would realize that he wasn't sitting still.
Also, I read about a school for autistic kids where the students are taught to put their hands on the desk or table in front of them while they are talking or listening, so that they will become more aware of any rocking or spinning motions that they make.
There are many ways of teaching body awareness, but it's important to be careful about how this is presented, so that the child doesn't feel overly self-conscious or stigmatized.
Yes, Mish it is Jed Baker. It's the coolest social stories book I've seen because the pictures aren't lame and I think he has a very intuitive way of explaining social situations.
On the bright side I asked yesterday if the school could make "no ABA" part of my daughter's IEP and they said they would. They also say the group they consult with(who was not responsible for the conference) does not usually agree with those kind of practices. The resource lady said the route we will take will be to eventually try to replace the spinning with an alternate behavior when the time is right.
Oh, and on my list of things I am for, I forgot to list anti-bullying training. I hate when people give me as a reason why I should pull my child from mainstream ed that she will be perceived as different and open to bullying. I was bullied too as a child but I never thought I would see the day that people would imply that it was my fault and I should've been yanked from regular ed while the bullies stayed. Next we'll go back to saying women deserve to get raped for the way they dress.
If some kids thrive in the current "mainstream" environment - and many obviously do - then that is well and good. There must be adequate provision for those who cannot, who are equal in human worth to their "mainstream" fellows, but who differ in their requirements for a suitable educational environment.
You have made some very good points, David. In the US, we have a similar noisy, chaotic environment in our junior high and high schools. It would indeed be much better if a variety of school settings were available for children who have different needs, and without labeling any group of children as "maladjusted" simply because their needs are in the minority.
Here's a parable about one-size-fits-all education (based on an essay written in the 1940's by George H. Reavis):
The Animal School
Once upon a time the animals had a school. They had four subjects ~ running, climbing, flying, and swimming ~ and all animals took all subjects.
The duck was good at swimming, better than the teacher, in fact. He made passing grades in running and flying, but he was almost hopeless in climbing. So they made him drop swimming to practice more climbing. Soon he was only average in swimming. But average is okay, and nobody worried much about it ~ except the duck.
The eagle was considered a troublemaker. In his climbing class he beat everybody to the top of the tree, but he had his own way of getting there, which was against the rules. He always had to stay after school and write, "Cheating is wrong" five hundred times. This kept him from soaring, which he loved. But schoolwork comes first.
The bear flunked because they said he was lazy, especially in winter. His best time was summer, but school wasn't open then.
The penguin never went to school because he couldn't leave home, and they wouldn't start a school out where he lived.
The zebra played hooky ~ a lot. The ponies made fun of his stripes, and this made him very sad.
The kangaroo started out at the top of the running class, but got discouraged trying to run on all fours like the other kids.
The fish quit school because he was bored. To him all four subjects were the same, but nobody understood that. They had never been a fish.
The squirrel got A's in climbing, but his flying teacher made him start from the ground up instead of the treetop down. His legs got so sore practicing take-offs that he began getting C's and D's in running.
But the bee was the biggest problem of all, so the teacher sent him to Dr. Owl for testing. Dr. Owl said that the bee's wings were just too small for flying and besides they were in the wrong place. But the bee never saw Dr. Owl's report, so he just went ahead and flew anyway.
http://www.homeschooloasis.com/art_animal_school.htm
Okay, I'm not sure where to begin here so forgive me if I ramble. Junior high was literally hell for me. I spent almost the entire seventh grade hiding during my lunch period in the bathroom because we were not allowed off campus. I would actually prefer that my child go to private school for these grades and would be willing to pay for it even though it is way behind our means. But therein lies the rub...most of the schools won't take her as it stands now. If she continues to improve at the rate she's going, maybe. But it seems every year as public schools worsen (except for magnets) and competition increases for the non-public alternatives increases, a certain culling of the herd is occurring. Why should my child receive an inferior education because of the ignorance of others? Bullying sucks but being denied an education is worse. I wouldn't force anyone to do something detrimental to his health but we need to be aware of the future ramifications of a band-aid on a present situation. I guess what I'm saying is that I agree with the premise of having a variety school settings from which to choose is enticing, the reality is that they probably won't all be available.
Oh by the way, the people that I said always infer that I should pull my child from mainstream ed to avoid bullying are usually NT. For some reason, they act like this is the most horrible thing that could happen to a child... to not be popular.
Yes, Gizensha, I agree. My daughter's current situation is great but what I have learned, I have learned the hard way and by constantly standing firm(not easy when you have a fairly mousy demeaner). I worry about all the advice that is given to the contrary of what we feel. While we discuss this here, some parent who does not have the benefit of being on the spectrum themselves is currently looking at a curebie site right now and reading the obligatory article on what to do with your newly dx'd aspie.
I went to a meeting a few months ago at the urging of some family members. The people were all very nice and wanted to help b/c they had been informed my daughter's background before I got there by my husband's family. I found the whole thing very surreal since up until this point I had avoided parent support groups like the plague. First off, it was referred to as a "networking" meeting. I found the irony of mostly neurotypical people using their autistic children/cleints to socialize sort of funny but couldn't tell anyone this. It was sort of like being in school again where if I let on what I really thought people would look at me like I sprouted another head. In this case, they would probably would think I was just trying to be mean. I'm really not...it's just that I feel that I'm observing an alien culture. I know that they love their children and they are frustrated and this is how they deal with it. Me, I'd rather grab a glass of wine, eat some cheese, and be by myself. Usually, when I get to do this often enough, I can see much more clearly and things run rather smooth for our little family. I just need quiet time while they need company.
The leader of the group is a very sweet lady who made every effort to make me feel welcome. How could I explain that it made me uncomfortable that she stayed what felt like 4" inches away from my face without sounding like a total jerk? Then she introduced me to someone who explained a high school to me that was private and very expensive that dealt with HFA kids. They were now branching out to include younger children because, as all the parents had been informed in the last meeting, people were scarring their children by leaving them in reg ed and they would be too screwed up by the time they got to high school. It reminded me of an open house for a catholic school I went to back home where the lady who founded it kept telling people that even if their kids were doing fine they still needed to pull them out and put them in her special program because "it all goes downhill when they hit 2nd grade". Of course, her program costs 3x what that particular catholic school charges but they will let your children interact during lunch and PE with the regular kids! I found this very funny since these were the 2 classes I dreaded the most in school.
Anyway, my point is that NT parents drink this sort of thing up. And the more we segregate ourselves and our children, it will continue because they don't have any real life experience with these kind of differences. I thank the couple of old-timers that told me not to worry about my child not talking on time because they had a brother or a cousin or someone who talked late because they wanted to use sentences instead of single words. That is exactly what my child did. Not everyone is going to land in the middle of the bell curve of human behavior. That does not mean they are defective.
:$ I've rambled enough. I'm going to go clean my messy house!
Well luckily I'm the only one that suffers for the most part! She is blissfully ignorant for now of these prejudices. She's a very happy, confident child. Even the church thing isn't a problem. The Catholic church we belong to here is very inclusive and supportive of her. :grin:
I was thinking, what the hell kind of idiot thinks shouting NO! loudly into someone's ear accomplishes something? It's hard enough for NTs to handle that, let alone a Aspie who, like me, might have a problem with sudden loud noises.
I don't see how these behaviourists can sleep at night, treating "disabled" kids worse than they would dogs. Seems all they're good at is terrifying children into submission. Sounds more like some concentration camp, than any idea of education.
As for acting out. If one kicks a dog, the dog will eventually come back and bite the person who kicked them. The same theory works with humans, especially those with a more sensitive amygalda which most Aspies have. You're putting a person into a situation where they are subject to horrification, (yes it's a word, I read it in another article) that teaches them nothing but fear and agression. Not to mention leaving the child with a lifetime filled with PTSD and depression after the fact.
Alright, so I suppose this turned into a rant. I just had been treated so badly by teachers who felt humilating, or emotionally abusing SPED kids was going to some how force them to assimilate. I had a nervous breakdown in high school, and slept for a really long time. Like a week after I think, because of the constant stress from the teachers ALLOWING other students to abuse me, and the teachers humilating/emotionally abusing me so they could be popular with the popular monsters.
Rant over. :boom:
No is my least favourite word of all and if somebody tried to take away my drawing notebook, they would live to regret it! (and I'm usually a very non-violent person). I mean, this is ridiculous as even NT people often draw and doodle to calm their nerves and while away the time.
But these people must be so dense and arrogant to think that acting dictatorially will change other people for the better.