Aspies For Freedom

ABA is the poisoned fruit of privatized medicine - a species of malpractice that seems only able to thrive in countries with expedient definitions of what constitutes torture,  and uneven application of the theory of human rights.

Biddyroy, miscommunication is continuing as I only asked 2 questions, and was not asking you what hyperlexia was. I had pasted a definition of hyperlexia as you seemed to describe it in strange terms. Whereas it is actually a condition that Stella thought you had. Though you had in fact said that you have dyslexia, not hyperlexia.


Firstly, my working assumption is: that incomprehension, of them by another; is often a primary, and distressing experience, for those understood as being on the autistic spectrum.

Yes I am feeling that with your posts. That is why it have been requested of you that you try and right plainly and clearly. If you posts cannot be understand they might as well be written and chinese and that would be pointless. Are you aware that most of the users here are autistic?

Secondly, a next working assumption is, that for me to empathise with those on that spectrum whom I professionally serve: it is valuable for me to experience, in my own person; others not comprehending me, although I am doing my best to give of my best understanding.

But this place is not for personal experimentation for you to make others confused and not be able to understand you. That is actually unfair.

When I am working, I am the servant of my clients. They begin by massively not comprehending me: and such incomprehension by them of others, is part of why they now have me as their teacher.
It is central part of my professional responsibilities to them, to achieve some mutual comprehension. I do that somewhat, by seeing the primary fault in that incompehension as lying with me: I do whatever I can, to end by my comprehending them.


That is interesting, but this is not your workplace, and we are not clients.


What has been said about hyperlexia, I have found interesting: and I'm grateful for the idea being placed before me in that way; and grateful for it being applied to me.

I do not know why you are grateful, it was erroneously applied to you, as you actually said that you have dyslexia.

However, the definition you give of it in your post: does seem very deficit, and very medical. I tend to always seek out affirmative modelling, and I'm always wary of medical understanding outside the narrow clinical/medical setting.

It was simple the medical definition as you seemed to minsunderstand what hyperlexia is.


I was also primarily responding to SLP as the origonal poster.

That's fine, but often here threads go off on a tangent, also if you are asked by an admin to please make posts understandable, I think that is reasonable and needs to be addressed.

Where I saw the possibility, rightly or wrongly, that s/he could be simply snowed by stark rejection of what s/he led with.

People gave their opinions on ABA. That was what SLP asked for.

My default is not to allow a confrontation chasm to continue: but instead to throw bridges across it; its something reflexive.
In such chasms, there is void and abyss: ground which, when you take it up, risks incomprehension by all parties to such confrontation; the confrontation has, over time, squeezed out what could have been middle ground.


If something bad and wrong is happening to autistic children that needs to be made plain, sugar coating, or finding a middle ground to be helpful is not serving anyone well in the long run.


Is AFF different?
Yes AFF is very different.
AFF has, rightly in my view, chosen to radically challenge neurotypical views, and to challenge a curative modelling of the autistic.
AFF also, perhaps uniguely, has this challenging progressed by "aspies", not by NT advocates.
Such challenging is so radical, that what is addressed takes on a life of its own: where it's hard to contain what will happen within protocols.
This AFF setting, in how it has set itself up, in what it addresses and challenges: stirs a hornet's nest; and exposes those who come across it, to this and that which is not yet properly mapped.

I do not understand your point here.

I can comprehend/understand what he is saying well.

CC good for you.

I have asked numerous people their opinion too just get an idea if it was just me having problems.
I think its better to try and communicate effectively if that is at all possible.

Your welcome.

Punishments are still used. This can be seen clearly on a popular tv show Supernanny, for example, that used a method based on ABA. The child was refused certain food until he could say the name of the food.
In ABA sessions toys or food can be witheld from the child until the child can say the word, or make an action.

If a child was in a wheelchair, would it be right to withold food that the child was used to having until it started to walk?

As I have posted before, I have spoken to someone recently involved with ABA and they said themselves that is it 'quite cruel'.

"New ABA" might be sugarcoated, its basically the same.

We have seen 'new coke', 'new labour', even a new image for ku klux klan.  :roll:

We just had a post from a mother who wrote that a behaviorist suggested shouting "no" in her daughter's ear every time the child started spinning:

http://www.aspiesforfreedom.org/phpBB2/v...php?t=3196

This sort of mistreatment definitely has not disappeared.

On the other hand, I have seen some parent blogs that describe children who learn best with a large amount of repetition and who run happily to the door when they see their ABA therapist coming, so I wouldn't go as far as to say it's always abusive.  However, just because ABA may be an effective method of teaching some autistic children, that does not necessarily mean it is suitable for all autistic children.  Any educational method needs to be matched to the individual child's personality and learning style, and parents who are considering ABA should be extremely careful about choosing a therapist because there are some very rotten apples in the barrel.

SLP, what you are talking about is so far from the origins of ABA that it is actually something else using the name. If it is genuinely true that you are simply playing with children, encouraging them to read, play, talk, in a gentle way, and only if they are happy with it, then its more similar to a play therapy or speech and language therapy.

ABA originated from Ivor Lovaas' attempts to cure homosexuality, he even defined it himself as something that would not work without punishments.

It seems that some therapists are now providing simple play therapies and speech therapies under the name ABA as a lot more can be charged for that, and its something that parents have latched onto as a possible cure.

I am not saying that you directly are trying to make more money by calling it a different name, but its clear that there is a major discrepancy going on.

There is ABA that operates with aversives, punishments, is very demanding on the child, and then there is a new form of simple play therapy that calls itself ABA, claims to be nice and friendly, and charges a great deal.

I have spoken to parents who are doing that with their 3 year old child. That has to be too much pressure.

http://neurodiversity.com/library_rekers_1974.html Thats originally from the journal of ABA in 1974.

I'm glad you agree with my comment about the therapy name, it must be very confusing for parents.

BiddyToy, as a teacher yourself, is there anything you can do about it? Does your opinion hold any more sway than ours?

Hi itsok, in this paragraph -

Anyway, and I am spending everything I have on ABA and think my son absolutely need s it. You may just think I have a lousy consultant but really they are pretty good. My point is that even high quality ABA misses here and there. We are not "state-of-the-art" because we are not rich but still I think you get my point. ABA seems to me to be consistently off the mark for my child. People can not be "programmed" but ABA uses "programs".


You are actually contradicting yourself there within the paragraph. Ypu say how good it is, then how bad it is. To me, you clearly sound confused about the whole thing, like Dorothy in the wizard of oz after the man behind the curtain is revealed as a fraud, but you still want to keep believing.

When you say that you spent $100s on lego, I ask you in all seriousness, do you have aspie traits, as that is a very aspie thing to do.

If you are having doubts, then I am surprised that you continue, especially as your son is in preschool, and so must be having some educational input.

Can I ask if you feel peer pressure from other parents to continue, or have you been influenced by the media to believe that you HAVE to do anything possible to 'improve' your son?

As you say your son is like you and your wife, I assume you have both faired well without ABA in childhood, and that you both like your personalities and unique ways.
Isn't is a scary thought to you that your son might end up like a cardboard cutout personality?

It seems that you are trying to change his natural differences to please other people.
This has always puzzled me.
You don't want to offend two girls that you are not related to, so you will try and alter your son's natural sense of humour???

He's a young child making a joke, he would probably prefer to make himself laugh, than to have to pretend to be NT in order to play with some bubbles.

I think you are looking at it all from the wrong perspective and that's actually quite scary.

When my son was three and four years old, I put him in a small, quiet preschool for 7 1/2 hours a week, at a very modest cost.  This helped him to get used to group play and the classroom environment.

I believe that there is too much hype surrounding ABA as a means of teaching autistic children to interact with peers.  A mainstream preschool is often just as helpful in building social skills, at much less expense.

As for language skills...

I'm not quite clear on the meaning of this: is your son now speaking a language other than English and needs to learn English?  Or does he now speak English, and you will be moving to a non-English-speaking country next year?  In either case, I'd suggest hiring a tutor to work with your son on English language exercises, as it would be less expensive than ABA, would be focused specifically on English language skills, and would not waste your son's time (and your money) with unnecessary repetition.