Academic Says Canadian Prenatal-Screening Practice a Reflection of "Nazi-Style Eugenics"
90 percent of Down Syndrome children aborted in Canada and U.S.
EDMONTON, March 18, 2004 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Screening babies within the womb in order to abort those with disabilities hearkens back to "Nazi-style eugenics". Tanis Doe, professor of social work at Victoria University, made the remarks to a group assembled at the University of Alberta.
Doe said that pre-screening of pregnant women for genetic defects in their unborn children is a wide-spread practice in western nations. It is a widely-accepted idea that those children with defects should not be allowed to live -- a reality borne out by statistics -- 89 percent of Down Syndrome babies in Canada, and 90 percent in the U.S. do not see the light of day.
Doe, who is deaf and paraplegic, said that "Women are expected to -- pressured to -- abort pregnancies when foetal disability is diagnosed." She stated that, in Canada, there is "minimal support available to raise children with disabilities. Eugenics was practised in the U.K., Canada and the United States before the rise of Hitler," she asserted. "So what has happened since then is a continuation of the sterilization practices that we have only recently acknowledged."
Dick Sobsey, director of the University of Alberta's developmental disability centre told the Globe and Mail that her statement, though contentious, is historical. Alberta actively sterilized the mentally handicapped between the years 1928 and 1972, a move that has cost the province $800 million in compensation.
Sobsey said that the decision to abort a disabled child is no different from the decision to abort a child with an undesirable sex, although the latter is still considered by most Canadians as barbarous. "Genetic counselling of pregnant women emerged from the eugenics movement," Sobesy said. "Before the Second World War there was a very robust eugenics movement in North America, in Alberta particularly. But the Nazis discredited the movement, so I think there was a move to a less direct form of eugenics."
http://www.autismcanada .org/Research/Eugenics.htm
Are they/she aware of AFF?
*hint*
We should get in touch, I have tried pro life groups and they havent shown any interest, and also contacted human rights groups, who havent cared either, but I will try and contact this person and see if we can get a response.
Can we see a list of people who don't give a ***?
Maybe we should start compiling one, and maybe also a "name and shame" list of sites that are harmful to us.
I refused all pre natal testing, even the afp blood test, I'm glad I did, they just use the results to put pressure on the mother if there is any varation in the result. I do think its unethical.
Autistics aren't a race. Nor are Downs people or women. If anything, its Nazification, if such a word exists.
whether or not autistics are actually a race or sub-species is open to debate (though i have to say neanderthal theory is looking more and more accurate), however we are definately a minority group who deserve the same kind of legal protections as other minority groups.
"Although I definitely support the use of eugenics to make people prettier and smarter"
The huge problem with that is that what is pretty to one person can be ugly to another, if some people didnt like a certain look, for instance an ethnic look, should they be allowed to use eugenics?
I am against all eugenics, you dont need to look into it very far to see that it is an easily abused and evil practice.
"I'm puzzled by the fierce-sounding opposition here to anti-defect abortion. It almost sounds as though people are getting mixed up and seeing themselves in every foetus."
Maggie, I dont see myself in every foetus. I dont need to see myself in a position such as people starving in Africa, to feel that I dont want them to suffer.
"People with Down's or neural-tube defects or a number of other conditions have a hard life. There's no getting around that. It's just true, and in the case of problems like neural-tube defects or multiple limb agenesis there's nothing that anyone can do to make life not be hard. Maybe when we learn how to repair such problems things will get better, but they're very definitely not good right now because as a society we don't even do most of the ameliorative things we could do."
My cousin has Down's and would rather be alive than aborted. Many people have a hard life, does that mean they should all be aborted and be given no chance to survive? People with bipolar? People in wheelchairs? People who are blind from birth?
Just because society isnt perfect, doesnt mean that only people who are perfect can cope in it, and others should have their live terminated.
"Why not spare everyone?
If my mum had aborted the-foetus-that-turned-into-me it wouldn't have bothered me. I would never have even known about it because there wouldn't be an 'I' to do the knowing."
You are arguing the whole point of existence there, that is a vast issue and not specifically related to whether abortion for things considered disabilities are carried out or not. If you want to start a separate thread for that, please do.
"It's the same with the foetuses being aborted for Downs or whatever --those are not human beings, they're just complicated groups of cells that would maybe eventually turn into a human being."
You are completely wrong. I am presuming that you know nothing of embryology to make that statement. It also appears that you know nothing of the reality of abortion, for a baby that is considered disabled, including minor correctible conditions such as cleft palate, a baby can be aborted right up to the moment of birth. That is at 9 months gestation, a foetus can survive from 6 month gestation. It is very clearly not just a group of cells.
"So why the opposition? It isn't as though the world needs more humans. We've already overloaded the carrying capacity of the earth by a factor of 100 or more and are wiping out more and more other species so that our own mindless increase can continue unchecked.
So what's up? Are we just as illogical as the NTs?"
You say it isnt as though the world needs more humans, can you deny people's right to have children?
I am concerned with the pressure put on those with AS and autism to NOT have children, and the parents with autism and AS who have children removed or have been threatened with it.
When a pre natal test is developed for autism, we face being wiped out in the future, and extreme pressure put on those with autism, who have a strong chance of having a child with autism, to have the testing done.
Maggie, do you think the world will be a better place with no aspies and auties?
Well said, Mish, very well said!!! To me all life is sacred, saying that I do support a woman's right to choose...........But.....if common sense were really common, abortion would be a very rare thing..and only done if there was no other choice. I have had two very close friends that, that decision happened to. I would not wish it on anyone!!!
Peace
But some people cannot handle any child, for various issues, and they may have to give their child up, should that child not have been born?
I dont think its a reason to encourage aborting a baby, right now a mother can have a baby boy aborted if she has a high chance of having an autistic child. They abort a boy only on the presumption that its a much higher chance of a boy having autism. That baby could be autistic or not, as can still be aborted just from the risk of it.
Is that fair?
This is part of a conversation that is posted on AFF which we had in the chatroom, the person criticized me for not choosing an abortion if I had the chance when I was pregnant with my son, imagine the criticism people will face if there IS a test available and they dont abort, under pressure people cant make rational decisions.
njk> If it were possible to diagnose the foetus for HFA, and you did... would you have continured with the pregnancy if the results confirmed HFA ?
Amy> yes
Amy> no doubt
njk> knowing very well your child will be treated like an invalid all his life, more chance of being bullied at school, more chance of learning disabilites etc...
Amy> hes not an invalid
Amy> hes very clever
Amy> he was LFA and developed to HFA
njk> but they are the minority
Amy> most do go on to become HFA
Amy> 7 out of 10
Amy> that is the stats
njk> I can't believe you still would have gone through with it .. Sad
njk> that's just it Amy, inequality sucks... weakness is relative. Like i said, I would want my child to be strong/healthy
Amy> my son is strong and healthy
Amy> he doesnt have asthma
Amy> allergies
njk> why are you deluding yourself?
Amy> you are deluding yourself
Amy> i have AS, i'm strong and healthy
Gareth> would you have aborted einstein given the chance?
njk> I guess you need these delusions
Amy> physically autism is not a problem
Amy> its in the brain
Amy> i dont have delusions
Amy> i have experience
Amy> that you dont
Amy> you are guessing
Amy> and surmising
Amy> without knowledge
njk> you don't want to accept the truth
I do agree with your points Mish.
I understand your point Ozy and vetivert and Cat, I'm not saying that anyone goes through an abortion lightly, and that its not traumatic, thats part of my strong feelings against it, women need more support from doctors, and help, not the supposedly "easy option" of abortion that can leave them with trauma, guilt and confusion.