I am having much trouble lately having to converse with some Nt's at work. Usually I just try to keep my opinions to myself but sometimes I do like to talk. I find that if make statements and include quotes of other people in the first person, the Nt's become very confused and then argue with me that I, myself, have said these things. For example, I will say "George said to me 'I know cats like water'." Then they will argue that "I" said that cats like water when in fact I have been making an argument to the contrary. When I further explain my point, they say that I am always contradicting myself.
I no longer wish to converse with people at work. I am starting to get bullied and having people say to me that I always think I am right, I always argue etc. I feel that they simply do not listen or just are not interested. Do other people have this experience with Nt's?
I don't think I've had this problem (though I've had problems of them being oblivious to things they have or haven't said, and then getting angry at me because I did something they thought they told me not to do but I have no recollection of them telling me that... Ahh, how I miss highschool :roll: ), but can I suggest that you use indirect speech? IE "Phil said that cats like water" or "According to Phil; cats like water." Less likely that someone would be able to misattribute a statement of someone else to you that way, I'd imagine...
It's when people ask me questions in the negative then take my answer as if they asked me the question in the positive that gets to me. "Did you not say that x = y?" 'Yes' "But now you're saying that x and y are different!" '...You asked me if I didn't say that x = y, so I answered that yes I didn't say that x = y' type conversations tend to grate with me.
As NTs have empathy, they don't need to listen very carefully to what has been said to them, as the empathic ear is tuned to pick out what is most convenient for it to hear.
M, I'm glad to hear that you're working, since last I knew, you were trying to get a job. What kind of work situation are you in?
I don't like talking to anyone at work anymore either. I know I will end up offending them in some way. I just don't know how to act. Once I got into trouble for sounding like an idiot on the phone. Another time someone said my exagerated facial expressions and gestures made her angry. I just can't win.[/i]
As NTs have empathy, they don't need to listen very carefully to what has been said to them, as the empathic ear is tuned to pick out what is most convenient for it to hear.
That explains a few things - like how its impossible to get a word in even when you have listened carefully to a conversation and determined the right point to make a contribution.
I have actually just really stopped trying to join into conversations at work for now.
Yesterday I was home with a migraine. I called in to work and the co-workers did not get the message until about 2 1/2 hrs after start time. When I came back they said they had thought that "maybe I quit" but one worker pointed out that I had left my shoes and jacket. Then the other said "well maybe her husband will come later and pick up her things". I think the person who suggested that I quit really did wish that I had quit. She has been bullying me. They made sure to mention yesterday's conversation to me today.
It is just a temp job and I can not wait for it to end. It is data entry on a completely idiotically set-up database. One co-worker was yelling at me for making soooo many mistakes - but most of them are not due to typographical errors. They are mostly due to 20 or more different things that I am "supposed" to remember and no one will write down the rules for me. They could easily be prevented by adding in a few if/and/or statements but of course no one there knows programming. They keep making fun of me when I ask questions because I do not remember information or know what rules applies to what case since there is not much logic going on.
Thank you for your suggestions. I will try to discontinue quoting people verbatim for now. I have to remember that some NT's do not read much literature, so they might not even be familiar how quotations are used.
One co-worker was yelling at me for making soooo many mistakes - but most of them are not due to typographical errors. They are mostly due to 20 or more different things that I am "supposed" to remember and no one will write down the rules for me. They could easily be prevented by adding in a few if/and/or statements but of course no one there knows programming. They keep making fun of me when I ask questions because I do not remember information or know what rules applies to what case since there is not much logic going on.
Ooh, ooh, been there! The others all seemed to pick up the rules by osmosis or telepathy or something, but I need to be shown something two or three times to be sure of getting it all memorised. I got to the stage where I was so fed up I wrote everything down in shorthand, then indexed it all later, and soon had a handy notepad full of rules that I was supposed to know completely after only one showing. How do they do it, I wonder? Do they just have better short term memories, or what?
Alison
Maybe their non-verbal communication also helps them more. For example they will say "when you check the date, you will know to do this." In fact, there are three or more types of dates in the documents. I need to know specifically what type of date, that is named properly, to determine the next step of the reasoning process.
I have heard that the Inuit people of the North has something like 100 different names for snow. In English it is just snow, slush, freezing rain, packing snow, powder but most often it is just snow. The meanings get lost in the translation somehow.
I have heard that the Inuit people of the North has something like 100 different names for snow. In English it is just snow, slush, freezing rain, packing snow, powder but most often it is just snow. The meanings get lost in the translation somehow.
I've heard this too but I also learned in a college linguistics class that this is a myth taught to school children. They have different words but it's similar to english like white snow and black ice not really different words.
The English have at least ten words for rain that I can think of, and probably very many more :smile:
shower
drizzle
raining
pouring
bucketing
pelting
Scotch mist
cats-and-dogs
p-ing down
mizzle
I'm having the exact same problem with my partner. I am housesitting and said to him last year that the person whose house it is said we should remove the cat litter box over summer because the cats could "go" outside when it is warm. I also said it was a silly idea as I didn't want them going to the toilet all over the garden and neighbourhood.
Recently, he suggested getting rid of the cat loo again and I once again voiced arguments against that idea - to which he then responded "That's funny, because a while back you were suggesting exactly the same". Err, no!!! :roll:
He also keeps saying I always want to be right, but in 99% of cases, I am trying to correct his misinterpretation or misquote of things I alledgedly said or did. How can they form an accurate impression of my views if their memory of things I said and of opinions I expressed is so far removed from what I actually said or believe?
He is also verbally very gifted so he is very adept at confusing me even more than I already am, for example if I try to get him to pull his weight in the house (he was unemployed for most of last year), he always manages to make the argument about *my* faults and about how *I* am completely mistaken about just how much work he does in the house. (But since I have the sad "talent" of memorising patters of stuff on the floor, I can tell from hairs and bits of fluff and dust whether or not the house has been cleaned!)
I guess a lot of the time, we probably remember things in greater detail than most people, and we remember things more factually, whereas others seem to just remember a roughly interpreted (and often misinterpreted) version of what was said. So when they tell us something we alledgedly said, what they quote is so completely different from what we said that we can't help but correct them, because they based their views and ideas of us on false information.
shower
drizzle
raining
pouring
bucketing
pelting
Scotch mist
cats-and-dogs
p-ing down
mizzle
cloudburst
downpour
precipitation
sprinkle
storming
spitting
Monkey's wedding
Indian Summer
...
When you're quoting someone's first-person speech, use a funny voice.
Having worked in quality control - I am over sensitive to lack of training or really bad training. I tend to be quite critical at times. I was trying to hold back on my criticism since I knew this job was going to only be temp: a few months.
At this time now, I really have forgetted about most of the worse things. At first, my questions were tolerated well. Later they became criticized for my lack of memory and common sense. Then the petty remarks started: I had dandruff, my clothes were weird, my opinions were not wanted when I was asked for them, etc. I was happy to leave the place. I would not work there again unless I had clear written instructions and a quiet place to work on my own.