Aspies For Freedom

Sorry if this is a bit long - i'm not the best at expressing myself concisely. Also my first post here... i'll try to do better next time, but right now i'm just pretty excited to have a place to talk about these things.

When i first started reading about Asperger's, i went back and forth between obsessivly compiling lists of my own symptoms, taking tests etc. and trying to avoid it - because it interfered with the project i've been devoting the vast majority of my mental energy to since i "woke up" to the existence of the social world as a teenager - that is, repressing and avoiding thoughts and information that validated the fact that i actually might be fundamentally (and immutably) different and could never learn how to fit in. I had always thought that i had simply been mis- or under-socialized, and could therefore eventually succeed in doing it manually, albeit a couple decades late. I've always tried to hide the characteristics that make me "weird" while trying to fantasize my way into participating in "normal" social life, with extremely limited success, and the predictable result that i always feel guilty, like a fraud (like being in the closet or something, feeling like i've gotten away with a crime every time i can pull of 2 minutes of small talk.) Needless to say, it's gotten pretty exhausting.

I'm realizing now that i have a lot of artificial and unreasonable expectations of myself that i constantly use to regulate my behavior, based on weird (or at least uninformed) fantasies that i have about "normal" people's social and emotional lives. It seems like they are mostly motivated by jealousy and anger from a perpetual feeling of being left out. This could be a positive thing, because it forces me not to lose hope of ever engaging with others socially (or romantically) in fulfilling ways, but i also wonder whether it's doing more harm than good, in the sense that i'll always expect the impossible, because of my basic awareness that i'm missing out on something no matter how well i can pretend to occupy the roles i try to invent for myself to play in social situations. In other words, i know it will never be real - even though it's the thing i want most.

Can/should i stop wanting it? Is the desire for meaningful relationships just another artificial value i've imposed on myself from observations of other people? The more i allow myself to slip into isolation, the more that seems like a possibility. What i mean is that i maybe i've learned to want intimacy the way you learn to want a new car after seeing so many advertisements for it (but then you get on your bike and remember you liked that better all along); i want it more when i'm around people more because my awareness of missing something is higher, and vice versa. Does anyone relate to this?

Umm. More questions: Is it useful to try to socialize yourself in some way (after acknowledging that you will never be entirely successful), and if so, to what extent? How can you continue trying to live in the world with other people without torturing yourself with counterproductive emotions like the ones i tried to describe? What kinds of relationships can Aspies reasonably expect themselves to have with other people? How much effort should you put into this before you give up (and how do you know when it's turned into complete masochism)? How can i redirect all the energy that's been consumed by social anxiety and frustration to things that will make it better? How do you make it better? (And what does that mean?) I guess that's the question.

Some can, some cannot. Why not try and see? You could try keeping to yourself as much as possible (during your freetime at least) for a week or so, and see how you feel about it. If you, like me, find that being alone doesn't bother you, and that as long as you have something you find intresting and entertaining to do in peace, you are satisfied, then there is a good chance that you can.

You might stumble upon a few people, one every few years or so, who are able to accept you and your "oddities", and are if not  somewhat similar themselves, atleast accepting. (this goes for NTs as well. but typically NTs who tend to have their share of AS traits) Some people that you can communicate easily with, and are more intrested in meaningful discussion than mindless small-talk, and you as a person than your appearance. I have found a few during my life so far, and once every other week or so, I meet one of the three I still have contact with. (one, who I had known since I was about 5 year old, was diagnosed with AS just about a month ago :lol

I have never had a problem with being concise, and I will not change that here. You need to stop acting like other people. There is not reason to lie to yourself or others and give yourself an unrealistic expectation of normalcy that will end up in catastrophic failure. If you shadow who you are, you will end up with quelled potential and a largely wasted life. If you are not yourself, then who do you expect to befriend you? Who would you get into a romantic relationship with? Would you seriously expect to live your entire life lying to the one that loves "you"? Being anything but what you are is a travesty, albeit one that you were probably forced into by parents/teachers/peers. Sorry to sound mean, I just come off as really blunt.

Postscript-Welcome to the forum, feel free to make posts as long as you want.

Thanks for both your replies. I have been lucky to find a few people i can get along with (and even feel like "myself" around), though i continue to have all kinds of strange issues with even these relationships.. that i won't go into now. I've noticed, though, that the people who know me best, and who i feel the least need to conceal my quirks from, usually seem to be sensitive to the fact that there's something unique to our friendship, and rarely try (or soon stop trying) to include me in groups, introduce me to other friends, etc.

SB, thanks - i wish someone had said that to me when i was about 13, though (and i had been able to understand it in the proper context). I think the root of many of my problems now is that, unfortunately, i've been trying to STOP being myself for such a long time that i sometimes have trouble figuring out which traits are natural for me (whether facets of my personality or Asperger's symptoms) and which are behaviors i've learned and assumed for misguided reasons. Both kinds equally appear to be maladaptive; also, the fact that "myself" for me doesn't refer to anything resembling a social persona makes all the emotions and impulses upon which i act appear equally distant from... me.

What you said about ending up with a wasted life is something i absolutely relate to - i've been feeling that way for a long time, and i want to attempt to untangle all these things in my head so i can stop wasting my time and suffering unneccesarily, if that turns out to be possible. Here are some steps that i've taken:

1) I moved to a country where my native language is not spoken, and where extroversion isn't as much of a social norm, so that i can stop beating myself up all the time about my now-excusable inability to communicate and behave appropriately

2) I try to avoid situations with groups of people where i might be overly sensitive to, confused and overwhelmed by social politics

3) I try to resist impulse to attempt to tell people about myself or my interests - this is something i often find myself doing, because i feel a sense of obligation to prove that i'm something other than a bundle of facts and information, just like everyone else (though i always seem to end up demonstrating just the opposite!)

4) I try to ignore other people's judgements (real or imagined) about the way i spend my time, and stop responding to perceived expectations that i should pursue my interests in the company of others, when i actually have no such desires. (For example, it no longer occurs to me that it's strange to go to the cinema alone)

5) In progress: lowering, disregarding, or eradicating ALL of my habitual expectations (of myself, of others - does anyone else feel like they've done this successfully? If so, how?)

6) Expose myself to young children on a regular basis (is this a good idea? I can't tell yet.)

What do you think? Thanks very much for listening and/or responding to me.

I'm also in a country where my native language isn't spoken.  I speak Spanish pretty well, but I think most people assume my social awkwardness is due to language or cultural difficulties/differences, so they cut me some slack.

I met some nice people here, but have since completely avoided them because I'm overwhelmed by the social politics, as you say.

I go to the cinema alone quite often here.  I spend a lot of my time in bars and cafés reading to myself.  I actually don't mind being around people (if it's not too crowded) and it's actually kind of nice so long as I don't interact with them.

"6) Expose myself to young children on a regular basis (is this a good idea? I can't tell yet.)"

Expose yourself to young children?  Won't you get arrested for that?   Maybe I do not understand what you are trying to say here.

Touche. I think i chose that verb because of the epidemiology metaphor, actually: being around people is often like exposing myself to a disease, a threat or a risk. Or: to expose oneself to things that produce strange or neurotic reactions, e.g. behavioral therapy to overcome phobias.

So there's a great example of an autistic attitude - i'm exposing myself to stimuli, rather than engaging with people.

Anyway, i thought observing/interacting with children would be a good idea because i could learn from them - i thought their behaviors would be less mature, and therefore, less opaque. So far it hasn't gotten me anywhere; i'm actually quite terrified of them, though it's a bit easier to talk myself out of taking everything so seriously.

I do the same thing with people - avoiding second meetings if the first went well, because i know it's only downhill from there. I love people-watching, though, and being in situations where i'm both surrounded and ignored.

Children are similar to animals in that if you don't show fear around them, they are unlikely to do anything you need to be afraid of.

Well, at least my NT son does not like it if I don't act adultlike. And kids are very much conformists, that's why I had almost no friends when I was a child, but do have some friends now that I am adult.

Sibylle

Ok.  Now I understand that you want to be around children.  

Children can be difficult to be around sometimes.  Babies are more fun.  You might learn from being around babies just learning to play or talk.  Of course, then you would have to be friends with their parents to do that.  I used to hang around in the church nursery to play with the babies.  There were other adults there.  They said it was okay after I got my police check to be a sunday school teacher.  Otherwise people were not allowed to go in there without permission.  There is also a mentally retarted woman and a man with blindness and some cognitive problems that are allowed to sit in the nursery during the church service.  They feel more comfortable there than up in the church.  

Another fun thing is to go to a restaurant where the tables are close together.  You can listen to people have conversations and watch them.  You can pretend to be drinking and reading.  You will have to order food or drink.  Most places will not let you just sit there.  Also do not go to the same places everyday and just sit.  You will be put out.

There is much in this thread that I can't speak to at all, but I will say that I have often worried that the human desire to couple up is born out of many things that mostly have little to do with each individual's own needs and happiness.

Advertising is definitely there, as is instinct.  Preservation of the species kind of thing.

You don't need someone else to be happy.  In fact, the best way to create an unhealthy relationship is to enter it on the assumption that the other person can make you happy.

So, the best advice I can offer to you, or to anyone, is try to a fashion a life for yourself that is fulfilling of and by itself.  If you happen to meet someone along the way that you can share your life with, great.  But don't wait for it.  Don't waste hours wishing for what you don't have, instead of enjoying what you do have.

I'm sorry, I'm off on a soapbox here, or at least it sounds like I am.  I'm not an Aspie, or at least not a diagnosed one (I do have a few traits, but not enough).  So, there is so much more to your experience than I can ever understand.

BUT, I did the majority of my adult life single.  I got married for the first time 10 years ago at the age of 36.  My biggest regret about my single years?  That I didn't enjoy my life more.  That I spent too much time worrying about finding a mate, looking in all the wrong places for a mate, and allowing myself to get into totally ridiculous situations all in the hope of finding a mate.  Meeting my husband, when it finally happened, had such a sense of fate to it.  And knowledge that we could never have formed this relationship if we were still the people each of us had been just a few years before.  So, nothing I did in all those years could ever have made a difference, it seemed.

I can't say what is in your future, or in anyone's future.  I know that you face many more obstacles to forming a permanent relationship than I did.  I don't in any way want to belittle that.  All I know that you expressed a concern in your first post that many people have felt, whether Aspie or NT.  And it was that one feeling I wanted to address.

No one needs a relationship to have a happy life.  I don't know why we all think we do.

And if I'm totally off base here, I'm sure someone will tell me.