Aspies For Freedom

Not me Gareth! I've often been surprized by reading on this website posts from people who are somehow able to drive. I've never driven, and so have no first hand experience here, but even if the DVLA allowed a licence to be issued, who would insure us?

Stella

I have a driver's licence.  All my siblings got theirs at age 16-17.  I was 21 yrs old when I got mine.  I had to pay for alot of extra lessons.  The instructor even asked me "what is your problem?  Were you in a big car accident before?"   My parents were surprised when I passed the exam the first time then they would not let me borrow their car.   I did not drive for seven years until until I bought my own car.  I had no problem getting a good insurance rate since I had been insured on my parent's policy for seven years -  no accidents as I never drove at all.  

My husband will not let me drive anywhere myself for some reason.  (I think he found out about my diagnosis but never told me)  He will only let me drive when he is sitting there criticizing my driving.  My driving is not so bad.  I just take along time to park which irritates him or I am not aggressive enough or I follow to closely.  I do not have the greatest depth perception but I do not think my driving is so bad.

Insurance risk is generated on statistics.  Once the insurance companies start compiling statistics that show people with an particular "disability" have more accidents that others, rates for that group will increase or they will refuse to cover.   ANOTHER REASON NOT TO GET AN OFFICIAL DIAGNOSIS OR DISCLOSE.    Many people have to drive to be able to work.  Insurance coverage is required by law where I live.

I have similar problems when I have my driving lessons. I only got my learner's permit when I was 19 and started to get driving lessons when I was 21. Although until the age of 20 I lived in the inner city and did not have any pressing need to get a driver's license.

Have you seen the movie Cats and Dogs?  The cats drive the car:  one steers and the others pushing the pedals.

Quite a timely subject matter as far as I'm concerned.

I've had a provisional licence for about ten years or so, and I've had a few lessons here and there (but moved house too far from instructor, went on holiday and spent all my money and couldn't afford more lessons for a while, and another time, the driving school (BSM grrrrr... ) closed my local branch and the instructor left before I put in for my test.

I've never really needed to drive, I've always worked in city centres, and it's been easier to commute.  I've needed transport more these past couple of years after having an accident, as I can't carry so many groceries, but I've used a lot of taxis to bring me home from the supermarket.  I was assaulted about six weeks ago on a bus, though, (some school kids attacked another passenger and I tried to be a good samaritan and intervened and got punched in the face and kicked on the floor).  That's made me decide that I need to finally get round to passing my test and getting a car, buses are just too frightening and dangerous!

I've been looking into buying a car, so I was looking at insurance, and how much it would cost to insure different types of car.  Some of the online insurance sites, you can input different data and it will give you different quotes.

I input details for a car I was thinking of buying, and also my personal information:  you're asked for name, date of birth, no claims history, marital status, occupation... and that's where I fell down...  I currently fit into the classification 'unemployed - disabled' not because of my aspieness (I don't yet have a formal diagnosis), but because of a physical disability after an accident (i'm waiting for surgery).  Every time I entered 'unemployed - disabled' it came up with a result of "Error - we cannot quote for you at this time", and gave me the option of phoning for a quote instead.  

Just as an experiment, I re-entered the details, all of them exactly the same, except for occupation.  I gave as my occupation my most recent job (which is also my future job, once I've had surgery and gone back to work).  Funnily enough, the system gave me a quote, of around £900 pa.  I tried some other categories of occupation 'student' (I'm studying part time), and this gave me a quote, and various random other examples.  The only time the error message came up was with 'unemployed - disabled', when it declined to quote me.  

I rang up and asked why their company discriminated against disabled people, why it wouldn't give me a quote for 'unemployed - disabled' when it would for the other categories.  The woman in the call centre suggested that if I wasn't working and I was at home, then perhaps I should call myself a 'housewife' and she'd give me a quote on that basis.  I pointed out that I'm single, and she said oh, but we get single mums who are at home with children, and I said that didn't apply to me so I couldn't be classed as a housewife.  I said to her anyway, wasn't it wrong of her to suggest that?  I mean, if I obtained insurance from their company on the basis of incorrect information (that she'd told me to submit), in the event I had an accident, they would likely use their small print to say I'd given incorrect information and so my insurance would be null and void, because insurance companies love to get out of paying for claims whenever they can! (And she acknowledged this would probably be the case!)

Then we talked some more, and she said that if I insisted on being 'unemployed - disabled', she would have to find the right category as to how it affected my ability to drive.  I explained that my disability did not affect my ability to drive, it just affected my ability to work.  For some reason, their system did not seem to accept this.  Apparently, if you have a disability, then it *must* impact on your ability to drive!?!?!?  I explained I have a metal plate in my wrist, it's compressing nerves and causing carpal tunnel-type symptoms, I've also got some bone overgrowth and this restricts my 'supernation'.  She couldn't find a category, but as a random example which she figured was the nearest appropriate thing, she entered 'osteoarthritis' (figuring it's a 'bone problem').  The quote came out at around £2,100!!!!!  By changing that one factor, occuption, the quote was more than twice as much!  

I don't know what the 'real' quote for my problem should be, I gave up because I didn't fit into any of their categories and I haven't bought a car yet, I just wanted a rough idea for the car I was thinking of buying, but if I'm going to have to pay so much in insurance, it might be out of the question.

I don't know what kind of impact being aspie would have on insurance quotes, especially if it's listed by DVLA (I wonder why???).

Disability in relation to car insurance is something I think needs looking into.  There is the 'mobility scheme', which helps with the cost of cars and running costs, but that only relates to people who have mobility problems, as opposed to people who have increased car insurance as a result of their disability, which seems unfair, to me.

I just phoned up the DVLA to ask about this.  Because I'm not officially diagnosed, they said I shouldn't report it.  However, people with an official diagnosis, should declare it.

They said any application will be referred to their Medical Advisers.  A person with a disability *may* be issued with a restricted licence, which they would have to renew every, say, 1-3 years.  Or, alternatively, they may be issued with a regular, unrestricted licence.

I was told that 80 per cent of cases are processed in around 90 days.

I think it's a bit poor, though, to describe AS as a "behavioural problem".  Sounds like they don't have a clue about it.

There's a really good feature here called "Asperger's and driving"

http://www.actionasd.org.uk/driving.htm

I think my aspieness has some slight impact on things related to driving, but I don't think it affects my ability to drive.

I don't recall (from my lessons all those years ago) any problems with anticipation and hazard reaction.  My pedantic attention to detail means I spot things.

However, if I'm driving and someone tells me "turn left" or "turn right", they have to do it in plenty of time, because I have a real problem telling my left from my right, instead of automatically knowing, I actually have to think through the process:  Okay, which hand to I write with, *looks at right hand*, so left is the other way.  

One of my driving instructors laughed at me because he noticed that every time he said "turn left" or "turn right" I would look at my hands on the steering wheel to figure out which was which.

I know if I want to turn < that way, I'll turn that way, or if I need to take the next turning > that way, I recognise the roads and the route, but it's when left and right are verbalised, I have to 'translate' them.  So my aspieness only affects me -- ever so slightly -- if someone is in the car with me navigating.

Another way it affects me is that I find it difficult to translate numerical representations into physical distances.  Like some people, you can ask them how far is it from Town A to Town B, and they'll say 20 miles.  I've no idea how far 20 miles is.  I can't relate to abstract, numerical descriptions of distance.   The only one I don't have a problem with is 100m, because that's the length of a sprint on an athletics track!  

Again, I've no problems with perception:  i.e. driving too close to the car in front, or physical stopping distances, or whether I've time to come out of a junction or not before the approaching car arrives, I don't have a problem with that, in physical terms -- to close to go so stay where you are/far enough way, safe to drive on, I'm okay.  But if you asked me:  How many metres away is that car?  Asking me for a numerical description of the distance, I'd probably be stumped.  I'd know it wasn't 10 miles, but the difference between quarter of a mile, half a mile, a mile, in abstract terms... no idea!

But I didn't realise, though, while I've been thinking about buying a car, that AS might be classed as a disability where driving is concerned.  Like the article I linked to said, "Some insurance companies will not quote for people who have disabilities."  Actually, I'm sure that's totally illegal, to discrimination like that.  Although they could probably get round it by saying we don't refuse to quote, we'll just quote you £2,000 for insurance, or an even more unaffordable figure and exclude you that way.

From the MDF Bipolar website:

"Driving - DVLA
Below is the current information from th DVLA on Psychiatric Disorders and what action needs to be taken.
If you have any quesries about these you should contact the DVLA directly.

{b]If you have a medical condition which has become worse since your licence was issued or you develop a new medical condition, you must inform the Drivers Medical Group of your condition, as it may affect your fitness to drive. Failure to do so is a criminal offence and is punishable by a fine of up to £1000.[/b]

...

DEVELOPMENTAL DISORDERS
includes Asperger's Syndrome, autism, severe communication disorders and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder.
A diagnosis of any of these conditions is not in itself a bar to licensing. Factors such as impulsivity, lack of awareness of the impact of own behaviours on self or others need to be considered Continuing minor symptomatology may be compatible with licensing. Cases will be considered on an individual basis..."

http://www.mdf.org.uk/index.asp?o=1814

There are also references in there to depression, personality disorders, non-epileptic seizures, medication, the whole gamut of psychiatric conditions.

* my emphasis.  NB: It really wouldn't have occurred to me, had Gareth not brought this up, so it's important that people know.

Yeah, Amy, totally agree with you.  S'funny how whether or not it's a disability depends on whether they're going to have to spend any money, whether they're going to have to provide any support services!  Funny that!

That's the case over here too jeffomatic.  It's 'flagged up' as being a notifiable medical condition, a person *must* inform the licensing authority and it's a criminal offence not to.  But then if their personal general practitioner doctor confirms they are okay to drive, the licensing authority's own Medical Adviser will review that information and hopefully confirm they can have a licence.

Problem is, though, that even though it's a notifiable condition, it might not have an impact on a person's driving, so they get a licence, but still I don't know how AS affects insurance premiums, I'm guessing it will cost more.  Insurance companies don't seem to care that a medical condition doesn't affect a person's ability to drive, they seem to just use it as an excuse to ramp up the premiums, or alternatively set the premiums so high as to effectively discriminate against disabled people by making them so unaffordable.

I was told I didn't have to notify them because I haven't been formally diagnosed - yet!  But like I explained before, I tried to get some insurance quotes and declared I'm currently 'unemployed - disabled' because I'm waiting for surgery following an accident.  They didn't take account that I said my disability didn't affect my driving, they just assume that it *must* and hike up the cost accordingly.  Grrrrrr...

I think insurance is a legalised scam anyway.  I mean, you pay insurance for in case you have an accident.  If you have an accident, your premiums go up, so the insurance company just recoups the money it paid out to you anyway, so you don't benefit, you just end up paying out for insurance and contributing to their profits.

What about sending a FOIA request to the DVLA and asking how they came to the decission to make it a notifiable condition?

Anybody have any suggestion as to what should be included?

Android

I'm almost the same, well, younger (wouldn't exactly have been allowed to drive in the 80es) & never owned a car, but driving always took so much out of me that it just wasn't worth it. My Mum also made me learn to drive - which is rich seeing as thoguh neither of my parents can drive!

LOL yes to this day I can't fathom how people do that 'estimating' malarkey. I used to be petrified of these competitions as a kid, where you got a prize for guessing how many smarties (or whatever) were in a jar.

I grew up on a wheat farm in the outback of Australia, so I was driving tractors, jeeps, hay trucks, combine harvesters, etc. from the time I could hold a steering wheel, helping out on the farm.  

I learned to drive on roads in a car during the school holidays, and passed my driving test on the first go at sixteen years old.  I've been driving ever since (for the past twenty eight years!) and apart from one speeding ticket when I was on my probationary plates, have never been booked, not so much as a parking ticket.  

And since I don't drink alcohol I'm not at risk of drinking and driving, and am usually the "designated driver" at any social does I can't wriggle out of.  If any NT tries to tell me I'm not an excellent driver, I will show my exemplary record to them and tell them to go chelate themselves!

Alison

I've never heard of it being asked before if you are AS, but I wouldn't put it past the insurance companies to ask such a thing.