Aspies For Freedom

Hi, I am new to the forum.

Don't really know if this is the place for me or not at this stage.  Basically I have (or think I have) a lot more problems dealing with people than most people of my age.  Whether this is due to a condition such as AS or not or a personality disorder or I'm just an eccentric or not very nice person I do not know.  Whatever the reality I feel there is something wrong, something lacking.  Where do I start?  Well, I'm 26 of average intelligence (been to uni and have a reasonable job).  Up until then and from senior school I've encountered problems on a regular basis.  When I joined senior school at the age of 12 things took a downturn.  

I’d always been unconfident and a little shy, more so towards those I didn’t know or felt didn’t like me or didn’t accept me, but even so I had friends (not as many as others and not as many as I’d like).  I communicated okay with those I felt comfortable with but not with those that I didn’t – this is still the case in many resepects today.  I wanted to be part of the in crowd but as I was (I think) perceived as a bit geeky then this seemed to hold me back and as an ethnic minority I was often singled out for teasing, whether in jest or kids being downright nasty then I was often on edge thinking I was going to be teased.  I was a very self aware, paranoid child, easily upset and nervous.  This made me act up a lot of the time to put on a front, often my behaviour would seem a bit weird to others.  This would result in people laughing at me – giving me attention (something I didn’t have for any other reason).  This spurred me on.  By nature I was shy and sensitive but this new found role as clown had a totally different effect.  Although feeling nervous doing these daft things (such as acting like a dog or making stupid noises) I continued.  I yearned for acceptance with my peers but deep down I felt I didn’t fit in.

Joining secondary school was overwhelming.  As a first year it was exciting being there and again I yearned for acceptance.  It was such a big place with so many ‘cool’ people or so I thought.  I was feeling really on edge right from the start.  I remember when I was about 12 it was a school assembly and I was expected to read to the hall.  I just couldn’t do it,  I remember bursting out into fits of laughter, obviously nervous laughter and being told to sit down.  It was terrifying and a was shaking.  Laughing I guess was my way of coping with it.  As time went on into the first year I realised I didn’t fit in.  looking back the reasons were because I was; shy, overly sensitive, geeky, an ethnic minority girl – easily the butt of jokes.  I wanted to be the same as everyone else and I guess I was deep down and I wanted to have loads of friends/ boyfriends and all the normal teenage things.  I perceived the friends that I did have as ‘rejects’ and only hung around with them as no other group wanted me – callous I know.  It’s not that I didn’t like them.  They were like me, socially inadequate.

As time progressed I realised that I would never be like the others.  The majority of other kids either ignored me totally or took the piss with some racist comment or joke about my unusual name.  I became more and more anxious – I remember people commenting that my hands were shaking in class that’s how nervous I was.  Looking back I definitely would have been clinically diagnosed with something, probably some kind of anxiety disorder.  The stupid behaviour continued and actually got worse.  People probably thought I was mad.  I guess I was an attention seeker in a strange sort of way.  It had the effect making me a bigger butt of jokes and made others totally ignore me.  The benefit I got was the 30 seconds or whatever of people laughing at me, looking at me liking me.  Deep down feeling uncomfortable about what I was doing, I still continued.
Around the age of 14/15 I became totally withdrawn, even more anxious and very tearful most days.  I forgot to say, whilst this was all going on I developed what would be termed an obsession for a pop band.  I think ii was about 14 when it started, just as a crush/ normal interest.  As I became more withdrawn it became an outlet for me, something/someone that was mine that I put more and more attention and time into.  During the particulary bad stage of my anxiety 14, 15 and 16 it was the only thing I was interested in.  This made people deem me as even more odd.  By this stage I didn’t care, things couldn’t get much worse.  I missed out during these few years on all the normal teenage things.

Around the age of 16 – 17 I began to snap out of it a little.  I moved schools to continue with my A levels.  It was better because the people that made fun of me weren’t there, it was a completely different atmosphere – more mature and nowhere near as hostile and so I felt slighlty less anxious.  I did get to go out with others on occasion, to pubs and once to a nightclub.  My complete lack of social skills were very evident and it was obvious I wasn’t enjoying it.  Well I cant attribute it to this completely as it was anxiety driven.  I could engage in social interaction with people older and younger than me to a reasonable level and felt most comfortable with non-peers.

I did manage to make a few good friends around the age of 17 and I still have these today.  They viewed me as socially awkward a lot of the time, they used to laugh at me and comment on my behaviour (often stupid ramblings about a load of rubbish when I didn’t know what to say around others because I felt uncomfortable a lot of the time).   Prior to this at school I did have people I ‘hung around with’ but as my problems worsened they began to distance themselves from me. I still sat with them at lunch times but contributed very little to their conversations.

University was the next stage.  My anxiety improved quite a bit in a short space of time but it still remained in the background, making me come across as shy, boring most of the time.  Deep down I was another person (I am), yearning for fun and exitement and to be accepted.  The silly behaviour remained in a watered down nature.  I’d do things for attention, and when I realised I was attractive to the opposite sex I became a bit of a *** and started getting off with blokes for attention.  I’ve always craved attention and this was one surefire way of getting it.  The behaviour ranged from being shy and generally pleasant to people in my class but when the opportunity arose in a seminar or wherever to voice an opinion I did – whether it was mine or not, I wanted the attention.  

The situation now – well it’s quite different.  The anxiety and uncomfortableness comes and goes depending on the situation and the person.  If I’m in a non-hostile situation I am fine although I cant guarantee that a stupid comment wont come out.

There are quite a few people that I’d say do actually like me and equally just as many that don’t – these are the people I’m anxioous around.  With some new people and groups of people I feel uncomfortable.  It’s difficult to explain.  I can sense a hostile group or person a mile off.  Also, its mainly women that have this effect on me.

My voice clams up and I listen to the way I sound making me speak unclearly.  Its totally different when im confident I sound it.  It’s when I think I’m not liked or being judged the problems start.  I cant seem to overcome it.  My job is quite customer focused and I’m fine with them.  It’s in certain social situations I sense the hostility.

My life experiences so far have turned me into what most would describe as a social snob.  I’m accutely aware of the fact that I’m from a working class background and my accent reflects that – a lot of people I know are middle class.  I guess I perceive the state school I went to as the cause of me being a nervous wreck that ruined a crucial part of my life.  For others they would not have been so badly affected by the mindless comments of stupid kids.  For an emotionally week person like me it was sheer hell.  I’m not saying the grass would have been greener on the other side but it was the crassness and insensitivity of these people – not even aware of the effect it was all having on me that caused my problem to spiral out of control.  I am now very socially conscious and have a view on just about everything.


Sorry this is a long drawn out post, I would just like some feedback on what you think I should do.  I still occasionally get a comment from someone that thinks my behaviour is eccentric (recently when I told a friend about the eveing course I did – the subject didn’t meet her approval she said ‘you’re mad doing that’ and also when I brought up the nickname I use for another friend and she didn’t get the joke)

I find it really hard not to get upset/ wound up when I think people are getting at me.  Im really defensive and overanalyse myself.  I’m paranoid in the sense that I know when someone is being funny with me and I go out of my way to totally ignore them.

Hi, you certainly seem to have had a great deal of anxiety as you were growing up, you only mention one obsession, did you have any others, how long did they last?

One thing that you say would strike me as less common for someone with aspergers - "started getting off with blokes for attention. I’ve always craved attention and this was one surefire way of getting it. The behaviour ranged from being shy and generally pleasant to people in my class but when the opportunity arose in a seminar or wherever to voice an opinion I did – whether it was mine or not, I wanted the attention."

A lot of spend more time trying to avoid the attention of others, as it makes us feel uncomfortable.

Have you tried the Geek syndrome test?

http://www.thegeeksyndrome.com

No it was only the one obsession and looking back I used it as an outlet.  It was something that gave me a purpose, something i believed in (if that makes sense).

The seeking of attention came about because i was not accepted by peers.

I still have this trait unfortunately - it results in me showing off i'm ashamed to say, whether it be my new car, holiday etc.  It's not all the time, just in front of new people. This is something I'm trying desperately hard not to do as it's driving people away.

Having obsessions, special interests, is one of the most common features of aspergers, so if you have only had one in your life then it seems less likely that you would be an aspie. Some people have traits of aspergers, which is some of the aspie ways, but not all.

Showing off a new car, holiday, etc to new people is probably less aspie-like too to be honest.

Do you have many friends, have you ever had problems in your work, or getting work?

Since leaving uni I've always been in work.  I guess I have an average success rate with getting jobs.

People I class as friends are people i've known for a long time and i trust.  Comparing myself to others my age, I have less friends - about 6 good ones.  These are the people i can have talk to about anything.

It's associates that I'm not too good with.  If i dont know someone it takes longer than most for me to start chatting to them, being friendly etc.  It's a lot worse with people my age.  I get on much better with older people, I seem to be on their wave length.

Average success with jobs, and having quite a few good friends seems like a normal thing as far as I know.

What is it in particular that made you think you might have aspergers? Does anyone in your family have autism or aspergers, or aspergers traits?

Some of the traits of AS I have, like i mentioned:

Social awkwardness (with people that put me on edge)
Not as easy for me to make friends than other people
Easily wound up - think people are getting at me
Fall out with people over small things
Easy target for people to take the mick
Dont feel part of it all

Well it's wonderful that you are searching for answers. I think it's a good thing to be able to recognize and try to resolve your issues. I don't think the number of friends you have is the important thing to assess, instead you might want to think about the quality of your friendships. You describe feeling disconnnected. That might be a sign of AS.

You have not listed any compelling interests but maybe that's because you don't recognize your self as having such interests. I know it took me awhile to "connect the dots" around that. Before I was diagnosed I had thought my long past interests as a ten year old child, such as my goal to become a Catholic nun, my attempt to break The Guiness Book of Records consecutive roller skating record, and my obsession with hamster breeding was all perfectly normal. Your interests don't have to stay the same or be deeply serious, just intense.

I do not want to sound like I could really judge whether you have AS or not.

Most of what is causing alot of problems in the life of someone with AS is interaction with other people:  not understanding that someone is angry or bored or feeling a certain way while you are talking to them.   You have no idea unless they verbally tell you.  Not understanding or pickin up the motivations of others you are having a conversation with - such problems will arise such that you do not know someone is lying to you or trying to get information from you, fooling you, or playing a joke on you.
Mindblindness:  I was asked by the therapist.  A girl puts her toy in her basket and leaves the room.  Another girl comes in and takes the toy and hides it in a drawer.  The first girl comes back and where does she look for her toy?     What would you say?

Most of what you wrote, but in particular the paragraph above, sound very strongly like social anxiety, perhaps avoidant personality (which is an extrapolation of social anxiety/phobia) to me.

Yes, people on the Spectrum tend to function better around people and things we are familiar with, but our social difficulties are not just down to being shy, and they do not just vanish when we are comfortable or familiar with people. (In fact for many, it is harder to communicate openly with people we are close to, and many do not have a strong feeling of shame and do not base their actions on 'OMG what will they think of me', as is absolutely classical in social phobia and avoidant personality)

I dont think I have any special interests as such.  My interests these days are pretty broad ranging from going to the gym, shopping, eating out etc.

What might be classed as intense could be my goals.  Ever since snapping out/ coming round from the trauma of secondary school I've been quite driven acedemically and career wise.  If something happens that sets me back, like when I wasnt meeting the targets in one place, i'm really hard on myself crying (to those i know will listen) and saying 'i'm a failure - i'll never make it now'.  I remember going for a job interview thinking i did really well and afterwards the recruitment consultant gave the feedback to me, basically the guy that interviewed me said i wasn't 'street wise' enough and wouldnt be able to cut it there.  This really upset me - for a short time anyway.  For me, when things are going well, they're going really well but when it's not going well I handle things badly and over react.

It could very well be a personality disorder I have instead.  My silly behaviour and anxiety really does depend on the situation i'm in.  With people i know they can still set me off, not the anxiety but if i percieve they are having a go at me or taking the mick in anyway then i really do over react.  it can take a while to put things into perspective and understand that they might have had a bad day, or what they think of me shouldnt belittle me or knock my confidence after all it is only their opinion.

Another thing people have commented on is that I sometimes go on about myself and my own problems and the conversation can be dominated.  One particular reason i think i may have AS is a lack of consideration for others but it's not intentional.  I've been told i'm self centred, but I do like being around people.  Guess I have to learn give and take and to be a listener as much as a talker.
One guy I went on a few dates with commented that I never asked him anything about him and just went on about myself -  this was not intentional at all.

These links seem to fit most of the problems you describe:

http://www.psyweb.com/Mdisord/avpd.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidant_pe...y_disorder

I had a look at those, would this one apply to you Daftduck -

B.  Avoids get involved due to a fear of not being liked by others.

It seems to go against the acts of attention seeking that you described.

You know, when I first was trying to work out the reasons behind all my 'oddities' and my failure in the social sphere, I discovered Avoidant Personality Disorder (APD) -- and most of that diagnosis really fits me.

I would've left it at that, except that I was reading a lot about Asperger's since my boyfriend is probably an Aspie.  At some point, I came across a description by an Aspie female (Suz over on as-if.org.uk) of how she played when she was little -- my reaction was -- ohmygod, that was me!!  (She describes on her site how she liked to set up her dollhouse and farm set, but not move them around to 'play' with them -- she just liked to think about them.  Me, too.)

Once I started delving into Asperger's more and more -- especially as reported/described by females -- I firmly concluded that I am an Aspie (I'm self-diagnosed).  I have a bunch of the sensory issues, problems with sociality, lack of eye contact ... a whole bunch of stuff.

But, my point is, I still think I have Avoidant Personality Disorder as well -- or, at least, that I have a majorly avoidant personality (I don't think APD and AS are mutally exclusive according to the officials, but I might be wrong)!  I definitely fit most of the APD criteria, too.

Donna Williams and Olga Bogdashina both have agreed (and me, too) over at the AWARES conference that Aspies can, indeed, have different personality disorders (obviously, we all have, at the very least, different personality types!).

Not sure if any of this helps -- but, do keep in mind that you could match the criteria of more than one 'official diagnosis' -- and that those diagnoses might both fit you, insofar as these things apply at all....

It could well be that you 'just' (I put that in speechmarks because from what I have read, it doesn't feel like a 'just', but like a severe problem) social anxiety, which, unlike avoidant PD, is far more dependent on the situation.

*If* this is where your problems lie, then there are many ways in which they can be overcome, through some social skills training but in particular exercises to build up your self esteem and confidence.