Aspies For Freedom

We are evolved, we are the next step in human evolution. We are NOT a disease, WE are the cure

imposible, maybe but does that stpthem from trying.

In my view, everyone with autism has an advantage over everyone else. Since we dont go out as much (generally) we spend more time revising and getting better grades in school and getting better jobs (generally). Unfortunately, the world is jealous. We have better jobs (generally), make more money (generally) and live nicer lives then everyone else (generally), and are hated for it (generally).

Was that too general? Tongue

And as for curing autism, its like hitler and his aryan race. Who decides what is perfect? I can understand curing real problems like huntingdons and downs syndrome, but autism is not so bad. We usually lead happy lives, as long as we dont need to socialise. Dont fix what isnt broken!

amadkiwi Wrote:

In my view, everyone with autism has an advantage over everyone else. Since we dont go out as much (generally) we spend more time revising and getting better grades in school and getting better jobs (generally). Unfortunately, the world is jealous. We have better jobs (generally), make more money (generally) and live nicer lives then everyone else (generally), and are hated for it (generally).

Was that too general? Tongue

Yes, because absolutely none of the above is true for me; in fact the exact opposite is true for most of them.

amadkiwi Wrote:

In my view, everyone with autism has an advantage over everyone else. Since we dont go out as much (generally) we spend more time revising and getting better grades in school and getting better jobs (generally). Unfortunately, the world is jealous. We have better jobs (generally), make more money (generally) and live nicer lives then everyone else (generally), and are hated for it (generally).

Was that too general? Tongue

I don't agree with posts like these. A person should have the choice if they want to be cured or not. I'm sorry but you have AS and can speak, you can go to school you have so many abilities that those with Kanner's do not. Do you know how hard it is for parents, how hard it is for the children to communicate with their parents? If they can't have their first words, their first steps, go to college etc. If there is a way to help these people without killing their personality, which would not happen anyway, than it should be available. It was only after I learned how hard it was for my parents for the first 14 years of my life that I changed my position, because if I had the opportunity at a very young age to not struggle as much as I did throughout my life in those earlier years than I would have seriously considered getting the help that I needed.

And as for curing autism, its like hitler and his aryan race. Who decides what is perfect? I can understand curing real problems like huntingdons and downs syndrome, but autism is not so bad. We usually lead happy lives, as long as we dont need to socialise. Dont fix what isnt broken!

My view is autism right now is a very hot topic. I mean, they always talk about, do we medicate or diet, medicate or diet, medicate or diet, and on and on. Do we cure or not cure, do we cure or not cure. Really, todays world would not been what it is without autism. It has given the world great things and great tools, and without autism, the world would have a dark future. The answer is simply clear. The autistics/persons with autism, whatever you prefer, have to plan our own futures. It is NOT up to the NT's to plan out own future, nor is it up to us to plan the future of the NT's. The answer is also clear, we MUST, MUST, send a message to groups like Autism Speaks, to BACK OFF. Are they autistic, some yes. Are they acting for our best interests, no. For an Aspie to work for them is like a Jew fighting for Germany during WWII. The answer is plain and clear. WE MUST PLAN OUR OWN FUTURE. And yet the NT's are planning it for us. I have a dream that the perfect world would be for the Aspies and the NTs to sit down and work together, not one oppressing the other.

In the Days of Newton and Einstein (Both believed to have had Autism), Autism was not as understood as it is today. This is the problem. People cannot understand Autism too much, or else it will be the death of us all. Autism is something to be not understood, and something to be channeled for the common good.

Take the moon, when mankind first saw it, they wanted to see it up close, and clearly. After the invention of the telescope, mankind finally got her wish. Then, several, and i mean several years later, mankind stated they wanted to land on the moon. The Americans succeeded in this.

The moon represents the Cure of Autism, something we all dread. Back in the good days of Newton, Autism was not understood, and we had nothing to fear. Since now, the NT's are far to close to "landing on the moon" (Curing Autism)

Mankind is driven by the concept of understanding. Once something is understood(Like Autism), then it must be changed. This applies to my moon analogy as well.

To make a long story very short, we must stand up and STALL, yes STALL, the understanding of autism. We must stall it until time ends. We know we cannot do this. We must get the NT's to understand, that we Autistics/Aspies are VALID. The Autistic people are VALID and will not be opressed.

Rubbish.  Absolute rubbish.  Acceptance comes from understanding, not from acting like some sort of elitist club.

Autism is a neurological condition.  And that's ALL it is.  I'm sorry to poke holes in the various cosy little Aspie Supremacist theories wafting around here at the moment, but autistics are not and never will be:

1.  A master race
2.  More spiritually evolved than the general populace
3.  a separate race from the general populace.

We are a group of people with a certain neurological makeup.  That's all.  We're no better and no worse than anyone else.  We have the same right to exist as everyone else, no less and no more.  And we do not have to be super gifted, lofty intellectual giants, highly evolved spiritual gurus, or any other species of wunderkind in order to justify our existence.  To say so is to exclude more autistics than you include, and that way trouble lies.

I found it particular sad that someone in this thread said autism should not be cured, then turned around and said "real problems like Downs syndrome" should be.  What gives a person with Downs less right to exist than a person with Aspergers?

Ethel Wrote:

Rubbish.  Absolute rubbish.  Acceptance comes from understanding, not from acting like some sort of elitist club.

Autism is a neurological condition.  And that's ALL it is.  I'm sorry to poke holes in the various cosy little Aspie Supremacist theories wafting around here at the moment, but autistics are not and never will be:

1.  A master race
2.  More spiritually evolved than the general populace
3.  a separate race from the general populace.

We are a group of people with a certain neurological makeup.  That's all.  We're no better and no worse than anyone else.  We have the same right to exist as everyone else, no less and no more.  And we do not have to be super gifted, lofty intellectual giants, highly evolved spiritual gurus, or any other species of wunderkind in order to justify our existence.  To say so is to exclude more autistics than you include, and that way trouble lies.

I found it particular sad that someone in this thread said autism should not be cured, then turned around and said "real problems like Downs syndrome" should be.  What gives a person with Downs less right to exist than a person with Aspergers?

Did you just call what i said rubbish?

Aspieforfreedom Wrote:

Ethel Wrote:

Rubbish.  Absolute rubbish.  Acceptance comes from understanding, not from acting like some sort of elitist club.

Autism is a neurological condition.  And that's ALL it is.  I'm sorry to poke holes in the various cosy little Aspie Supremacist theories wafting around here at the moment, but autistics are not and never will be:

1.  A master race
2.  More spiritually evolved than the general populace
3.  a separate race from the general populace.

We are a group of people with a certain neurological makeup.  That's all.  We're no better and no worse than anyone else.  We have the same right to exist as everyone else, no less and no more.  And we do not have to be super gifted, lofty intellectual giants, highly evolved spiritual gurus, or any other species of wunderkind in order to justify our existence.  To say so is to exclude more autistics than you include, and that way trouble lies.

I found it particular sad that someone in this thread said autism should not be cured, then turned around and said "real problems like Downs syndrome" should be.  What gives a person with Downs less right to exist than a person with Aspergers?

Did you just call what i said rubbish?

Hold on, i have more to say. We are a personality, a people, yes. We(Or at least I) do not claim to be better than anyone else. Why don't you just get off this boat putting words into our mouths. If you were commenting on what i wrote, reread it. I did not say we were better, or more intelligent, or anything.

Aspieforfreedom Wrote:

Ethel Wrote:

Rubbish.  Absolute rubbish.  Acceptance comes from understanding, not from acting like some sort of elitist club.

Autism is a neurological condition.  And that's ALL it is.  I'm sorry to poke holes in the various cosy little Aspie Supremacist theories wafting around here at the moment, but autistics are not and never will be:

1.  A master race
2.  More spiritually evolved than the general populace
3.  a separate race from the general populace.

We are a group of people with a certain neurological makeup.  That's all.  We're no better and no worse than anyone else.  We have the same right to exist as everyone else, no less and no more.  And we do not have to be super gifted, lofty intellectual giants, highly evolved spiritual gurus, or any other species of wunderkind in order to justify our existence.  To say so is to exclude more autistics than you include, and that way trouble lies.

I found it particular sad that someone in this thread said autism should not be cured, then turned around and said "real problems like Downs syndrome" should be.  What gives a person with Downs less right to exist than a person with Aspergers?

Did you just call what i said rubbish?

Hold on, i have more to say. We are a personality, a people, yes. We(Or at least I) do not claim to be better than anyone else. Why don't you just get off this boat putting words into our mouths. If you were commenting on what i wrote, reread it. I did not say we were better, or more intelligent, or anything.

Oh, and one more thing (Sorry), but i did not say, that persons with AS that are practically NT should not bear rights. I specified that NT's and Aspies should Co-Operate for the better of the people, i did not say at all what you were insinuating.

However, i will agree with you on the fact that whomever said downs needs to be cured, well, they are in the same boat as us. Downs should not be cured, and neither should Autism.

And no, we are not a different population than the mainstream NT's. The NT's just make us appear that way. I do know that you have autism(you listed it in your profile), and if you think like most of us on this form do, than you should be at appall for the things like Autism Speaks are doing. THEY, THEY, are making us look like deformed monsters. All i am trying to say is that we all have different viewpoints on the matter, and so do the NT's.

Quote:

In the Days of Newton and Einstein (Both believed to have had Autism), Autism was not as understood as it is today. This is the problem. People cannot understand Autism too much, or else it will be the death of us all.

This bit in particular is ruubbish. Emotive, us-versus-them, nonsensical, unsubstatiated rubbish.

The rest, in terms of Aspie Supremacy, is not directed at any one poster, since we have a few people spouting similar ideas around here at the moment.

That it your view and it is your right to hold it; however it's still rubbish. Understanding is not a bad thing; Newton and Einstein did what they did in spite of their autism as well as because of it. Newton's theories were nearly unknown for quite a while after he published them, until one of those philosophes (Voltaire? I think it was Voltaire) publicized them; lack of understanding only makes things more difficult. Autism Speaks, of course, is not exactly promoting understanding.

Also, your WWII analogies are unwarranted and kind of annoying...

Congratulations on being an ethnic Jew, but I don't see how that has anything to do with anything. Your pet theories aside, the fact is that the torture you are referring to stems from insufficient understanding; they think that stuff will help. The ridicule occurs because we are different; this would occur even if there was no knowledge of autism and increased understanding can only help it.

Furthermore, even you make the argument that it would have been better to stop researching autism in the 70s, this is a moot point. We didn't, and now there is awareness of it and there are a bunch of harmful quack cures floating around. Those things will not go away because we ignore them; we need research that proves that they don't work and we need to spread that knowledge around so people will stop using them.

Skateboarding is not a crime.

Amy Wrote:

The issues of curing autism, and treating comorbids.

People unfamilair with Aspies for Freedom often ask if we are against the treating of comorbids as part of the aims. As far as I personally see it, treating comorbid conditions is relevant to helping individuals, as long as they are not forced that treatment, or the treatment is abusive.

The huge difference between someone choosing to take a medication to help their depression, or having speech therapy to enable them to communicate to the best of their ability, and having an actual cure for autism is that autism is at the core of the person, most often genetically so, and present from birth.

As an analogy, if a woman had polycystic ovary syndrome, she would most likely expect and receive treatment to help her. This wouldn't change who she was, but would help that condition.
Clearly that although all women have ovaries, treating them for a medical problem does not change who she is, or her femaleness.

In the Victorian era, if a woman appeared to have a mental health condition, it was blamed on her being the 'weaker sex'. An hysterical woman (the word hysteria coming from the Greek word for womb) could suffer the treatment of having her womb removed, a hysterectomy. It
was thought that her femaleness itself was causing any problem. This is similar to the modern notion that in order to help someone with autism, who may have numerous comorbid conditions, that the autism itself must be removed.

It's barbarically simple, and as horrifying to many of us, as it would be to have a hysterectomy as a cure for depression.

This is a quote from a webpage about the history of a mental asylumm, and the people forceably detained there -

"Of women locked up at 999 (Asylum) prior to 1900, a quarter were in for "female trouble" -- "childbirth, lactation, miscarriage, menstrual disorders, uterine disorders" and other natural conditions seen as "the predisposing cause of insanity."

The "wandering womb" lived on in medical discourse. Cynthia H, 49 -- widowed and childless, admitted to 999 from a sanitorium in 1904 -- was "reported to have been restless, terrified of being deserted by everybody," and "in constant dread" of not being provided with food.
The cure for her "hysteria"? A hysterectomy. It failed to cure. She died five years later, at 999 (Asylum).

Daniel Clark denounced sexual surgery -- as an attack on "women's innate sense of modesty." But "utero mania," as he called it, was common: countless women were unsexed "for their own good." Many more went not under the knife but into the bin -- for the good of "the race."
(ref 1)

It could also be compared to the ageing process, as people reach their seventies and eighties they often require medication, treatments or walking aids. They are the same person inside but the body needs more help. Some groups of people advocate euthanasia for ailing pensioners, instead of the time consuming and costly medical care that they may
need. The additional conditions, or comorbids of old age need help, without altering the person inside.

I hope this makes it clearer to people who are unsure where we stand on conditions comorbid with autism.

References:

1. http://www.rbebout.com/queen/libtrin/2pnotat.htm

ATM: Amy, it is a sad age when there are actual groups of people advocating euthanasia for ailing pensioners!

My belief about "curing" Autism is that it is simply impossible to do, at least in the sense that it is understood by most people.  And, it is my experience that the children of "cure" and/or highly conformist parents seem to do worse than those of parents who believe in some form of acceptance.  That is my direct experience.

I also believe that Autistic children who seek to become NT do worse, socially, than their counter-parts who accept themselves.  Also, institutionalization is a death knell for authentic social development.  A child's place is in the home.  A child's place is not undergoing endless medical treatments to please upwardly mobile parents who want perfection.

It is time for parents to stop wanting an elusive dream of happiness.  The divorce revolution would end if we would confront one golden calf, that of the personal happiness myth.  You are not put on this Earth for that purpose.  Your life is not somehow "less" because your child is Autistic.

Forget about the abstract morality of whether "we should find a cure."  Those of you who believe in a cure had better accept that you will never see it, not in the sense that you would understand.  Thus, you can begin an honest walk with your child, helping her or him to be the best that they can be.  Your child was created for a holy Purpose, and it is your job to help her or him find it.

Be real parents, for crying out loud.  Otherwise, stop having sex.  Sex for pure pleasure is the worst thing that ever happened to humanity.  It is the root of most of what is wrong.  If you do not intend to love your children first, then please do not go through the saccharine hypocrisy of claiming to be "parents."

Thank you.

My thought on the cure for autism is this.................I'm not sure how it can be scientifically possible. Brain sugery is so dangerious, just the slightist move can knock something importaint out of it's power. But if the cure is painless and if it's done with medication, I'm in for the cure. And please, I'm not trying to be a trader or anything, I have having Aspergers. I can't relax much or have a good social life with it. I always felt that I would have been a better person if I never had it.

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