Aspies For Freedom

Last Saturday J went to the park with his “girlfriend” and two children. While there, the children’s’ father showed up and proceeded to beat J up. I, of course, know that what J said to his girlfriend was very dumb .. just one of the MANY things J says and does wrong. J did not fight back or try to defend himself. From what his girlfriend said to me though .. he said a lot more very dumb things...


Justhoping, what he says in private to his girlfriend is NO-ONE elses business! To say that hes says 'a lot of dumb things' is a very negative way to look at it, no-one is perfect, I am appaled that his partners ex beat him up, isnt it the ex who you should be complaining about?
Theres no way that he deserved that!
It was a criminal act, words between partners in private does not justify any such thing as that.

I am VERY afraid for my son.

There are a lot of cruel people in the world who will take advantage of someone that they see as vulnerable, the human rights of aspies and auties need to be protected, was the attack reported to the police?

He has held that for a year .. which amazes us. We have been holding our breath .. waiting for him to come home and tell us he was fired. He gets “written up” all of the time for things that he says/does. He cannot count on enough hours from this job though. They pay him very little and he would NOT be able to support himself on his income. He, obviously, still lives at home. He shows no motivation to look for another job and/or move out on his own. He appears to have no desire to become independent. He has found “friends” though. Most of these friends are “undesirable” and take total advantage of J. He doesn’t care .. at least he appears that way. He now has a “social life” and he comes across like that is all that matters.

He has done very well to have had two long term jobs, to be honest you seem extremely critical, only 12% of aspies have full time jobs, so he is doing well against the odds. Do you think that all parents approve of their adult childrens friends and jobs?

During the time J has graduated from high school and now (approximately 5 yrs.?) he has gotten into/had a lot of problems. He lost his license because of too many speeding tickets. He then was caught (twice!) driving while having a suspended license. He has been with “friends” and had money stolen several times. He traveled to a bad area of town to meet with a new girlfriend and was mugged. He had his wallet stolen and was roughed up a little. (A friend of the new “girlfriend” said that he was set up.) He is very careless with his cars. It seems like he is always coming home with a new scrape or dent on his car. He does not care how many miles he has to drive.. as long as he can meet with his friends! These incidents are just a few of the MANY things that J has done. The list can go on and on! Also .. J and his dad are at odds all of the time. I cannot get my husband to understand J’s diagnosis. At times he will appear to, but when it comes right down to it .. when the next “calamity” arises .. it’s the end of the world in my husband’s eyes. There have been SO many incidents that J has been .. it doesn’t take much for my husband to become infuriated with him.

A lot of young people have such incidents, I am sure he hardly asked to be mugged, try and get it into perspective, if your husband gets furious, he needs to work on that issue himself.

He NEEDS to start moving in the direction of a little bit more independence!


Yes, I am glad that you are helping him with such things.


I previously thought that I would try to arrange to get him moved into a “supervised” apartment setting. Both my daughter and husband maintain that I would be setting him up for failure. We have threatened to him that we would kick him out and that he could just find his own way. Again, both my daughter and husband maintain that we will find him dead on the streets. Yet .. the stress our son is causing in our household is almost insurmountable. What IS a parent to do???


How is he causing so much stress? You know that he has aspergers, and many adults with aspergers live with their parents longer than average, and can need more support. I don't know which country you are living in so its hard to advise you about accomodation facilities.

JustHoping, I am 52 years old, and still way too gullible. I usually don't 'smell a rat' either, when you would think I should. One of the problems with AS is, that it's hard to apply what has been learned in one scenario to another, slightly different one. Meaning, we never seem to learn a lesson from anything. I always learn everything the hard way. And even then I might make the same mistake over and over again, just because it isn't exactly the same, and so I don't remember what to do (or not to do).

But I have learned some coping strategies. If a telemarketer calls and is pressuring me to do or buy something, and I am tempted to give in, I tell him to call back when my husband is home. That way he can check out if it's a good deal, and I don't have to make that decision.

Him saying that his girlfriend should put him first might or might not have been a 'dumb thing' to say. Because we don't know what context it was said in, and why he said that. A lot of things that I say are considered 'wrong' by others, while they're just honest, and most people beat around the bush or are being dishonest about their feelings, just to be 'nice'. Aspies don't know how to do that. We tend to be blunt and to the point. And smalltalk is pretty much impossible to me, I just can't do it.

Actually, a supervised apartment setting might be a great idea. It would get J out of your house, you would worry a lot less, while he wouldn't be totally on his own. It would help him become more independent, and would give you a break (and him a break from being treated like a little kid, which I am sure he doesn't appreciate either).

I don't know if J is intent on pushing his father's buttons. I sort of doubt it. He is just being himself, and your husband is the one with the issues here. It is time he accepts J just as he is, and stops seeing everything his son does as a provocation.

You know, I don't choose to be gullible. I don't choose to have executive dysfunction and as a result being completely disorganized. I don't choose do have sensory issues (bright lights, sunshine, bright colours, loud noises, large crowds and a host of other things bother me and cause sensory overload and subsequent shutdown or meltdowns at times). I don't choose to be naive and immature for my age. I don't mean to be impolite or don't purposely say hurtful things to people, but I rather say them  out of ignorance of their feelings and the rules of society.

And the list goes on. And I am sure your son has the same problems. He does the best he can. Also, you need to realize that Aspies take longer to grow up. I have read that most of us aren't really adults until our thirties, and we're still teenagers in our twenties. That is certainly true of me.

I have to agree, that if you kick your son out of your house, he'll likely end up as a homeless person on the street, and possibly dead. That isn't because he isn't trying, but rather because he is incapable of coping on his own. It isn't his fault. You need to stop looking at him as being a problem, but rather that he has some problems that need to be worked out. And everybody needs to get off his back, blaming him for all the things that go wrong in his life. It isn't his fault, he was born different.

By the way, IQ tests are highly inaccurate, especially with Aspies. His real IQ might be a lot higher than 70.

Ursula

Hi justhoping, I know that you care about your son otherwise you probably would not have bothered to come here and ask for advice.

You said "The "stress" is because we know too much about what is going on in his daily life. We always know when he gets in trouble. Although this may not be really the case, we 'feel like' we are totally being taken advantage of by J. We "finance" him way too much and do not require him to give us any rent. (That is probably our fault .. the more I think about it?) Just lately it seems like he spends all of his money for "entertainment". I just don't know if he could ever live on his own or not .. ?"

As he is working, I think it is reasonable that he pays rent to you, and pays for his own food and clothes, when he eventually lives independently he will need to do that, so it is an important first step.
If you calculate his wages, and what would be his food cost, and a percentage of his wages for rent, such as 25%, and work those out with him so he fully understands where the money is going.

I would also try to find out about housing opportunities for him, for the long term.

Hey, I just came here because I was thinking about how to best help J, wanting to say exactly what Amy said! I agree that he should pay rent and buy all his own clothing and personal care items (not meaning that you can't give him a gift of a sweater or whatever once in a while, as we all do with our adult kids). He needs to learn responsibility to become more independent, and find out that life isn't a 'free ride'.

So, you definitely need to stop 'babying' him, without being mean and unreasonable about it. And don't go from one extreme to the other all at once, either. That would be too confusing. One step at a time is good.

What would also be good is counselling, to learn how to recognize true friends, as opposed to people who pretend to be his friends, but only take advantage of him. And to learn to fit in a little better, which things are not good to say etc. He could also then figure out with the counsellor where things went wrong when he was in trouble again, and what he could have done to avoid the situation etc. I do that, and it is helpful.

Hi justhoping you said "Do you have any ideas as to how we can get through to him .. in regards to his everyday life? Yes, he was born different .. but how do we get HIM to see/understand that .. so he can do some proactive things for himself?"

Would he consider viewing the site himself and seeing how other aspies cope and struggle sometimes like he does?

Some people with autism have social skills classes in school as children, a few have social skills groups as adults.

I don't know whether they really work, but it would depend on each individual I suppose.

But he would have to be willing to try it, you could ask what was available in your area and discuss it with him.

I don't know what research has been done on the subject, but yes, many aspies mature significantly between age 25 and 35.

Becoming less ambitious and less motivated and sleeping all day are often signs of depression.  It is not unusual for autistics to become depressed if they feel that they are doing everything wrong, etc.  (I hope this discussion with the doctor didn't take place in front of him.  And I would suggest finding another doctor who has a more positive attitude.)

It sounds to me as if there have been so many efforts to "fix" him over the years, he now reacts defensively when anyone makes a suggestion.  My advice would be to back off for a while and to let him make his own mistakes and learn from them.

I don't think he needs an expensive supervised apartment.  What would "supervision" accomplish, anyway?  Just put him in a small, one-bedroom apartment, pay his rent, show him how to budget for his other expenses, and leave him to muddle through.  You'll probably have to bring him a few sacks of groceries from time to time, but he will quickly figure out that he can't spend all his money on entertainment.

And I am wondering about the car.  If he can't afford to pay for his own car, is often caught speeding, and drives across town to meet with undesirable friends, why do you allow him to have a car?  If my son behaved like that, he would definitely be riding the bus.

Hello.

I am about the same age as your son. 23 yrs. old

Did you ask him, did he tell you or did you get what happend from his girlfriend? I think perhaps you might need to give him some space. Take a step back from whats going on in his life unless he wants to talk about it.  Try to be supportive and let him make his own mistakes, not letting yourself get draggined into his issues, unless he asks for your help.

I think most parents are afraid for their children and worry about them.  Take some confert in knowing your not alone.  A doctor diagnosed me 3 yrs ago with Asperger's.  I always struggled with school, such much so, that once I learned of alternatives I suggested home schooling and that helped.  In public school I was in special ed, because they thought I had a learning disability.

I had no friends in school either. The few "friends" I had, I don't recall how that came about, perhaps someone had helped me out there.  I got involved in an after school program where they played chess, for a time, until I couldn't deal with school again.

I have had only one job and it lasted 6 months before I got fired for fighting with another employee.  I think the boss took advantage of me.  Seemed like they had me doing more work then the other employees, based on the job chart they had and the fact I ended up being told to do other employees jobs for them.

Maybe he is satisfied with the job he has.  Sounds like you don't think the job he has is "good enough" for him, which sounds critical of him.  Just because he doesn't "show" any motivation doesn't mean he isn't.  He may be very motivated, but isn't sure how to proccessed.  May also be possable that he isn't motivated because he feels critised for any efforts he makes.  Just because he "appears" to have no desire to become independent, doesn't mean it isn't there.  He may feel he can't become independent and be struggling with that issue or feel not ready to become independent.

He may or may not disagree with you.  Keep in mind our body language may not be correctly read by others.  What "appears" to be the case and what is the case are two different things. He may take longer to learn that people are taking advantage of him, but its something he'll have to learn on his own and decide for himself.

While these things may seem out of the ordinary to you, think back to when you were younger, I'm sure there are many things you've done that you regreat doing.  Try finding ways to relieve your own stress.  You gotta let go of all the stress I sense you got.  Take some steps back and let him have his life, make his choises, even the bad ones, and try to live your own life.

Sounds to me you got some of the same problem.  You both need to find ways to reduce the stress effect that your son has on you both.  If he loses his job, it won't be the end of the world.  If he comes home all banged up, it won't be the end of the world.

I get SSI myself, however I suggest you talk to your son and find out what he wants, doing this without asking him, might just make things worse between you two.  I'd talk to him about maybe a small effiency or apartment close by.  Perhaps you could help pay for it in the begining.  Alot of what you've said sounds like you don't think he can be independent or can't trust him to be.  I'm sure he picks up on this and is may act out on it, in ways you may not understand.  Your giving mix messages.

I think supervisted housing is a bad idea, and he might not like that idea either.  I think the only supervision that ought to be considered is perhaps your own.  Help him get an apartment near by, where you could like visit once a week to see how he's doing.

I suspect your mixed messages are irritating him. If you want him to be independent, a good place to begin with is at home.  Have him pay a little bit of rent, buy his own food, and distance yourself from every issue that pops up, unless he specific asks for your help.  Give him his space to make mistakes without jumping in to try to take care of every mistake that comes along.  Easier said then done I'm sure.

I think the "stress" might be because you feel like you have no choise, but to know whats going on his life and from knowing what happends to him and feeling powerless to do anything about it.  You do have a choice, you can continue to do the same thngs or choise to do something new.  You don't have any control over his life, after all it is his life.  You should try taking a less active role in his daily life.  Instead of dealing with every problem that comes along, only deal with the ones he asks for your help on.

Maybe "whats the big deal?" is his way of saying he doesn't want your help/advice/involvement in the matter, and should be your que to back off and let him deal with it on his own.  May have nothing to do with an unwillingness to admit/accept it just he doesn't want your help/involvement/advice in the matter.  Maybe he thinks your being too pushy or feels frustrated with you.

Alot of what you've said, to me, boils down to, you not trusting him, an unwillingness to let him make mistakes until he learns, making bad assumptions about what he does and doesn't know/believe/understand/want, and inconsistency of what you want based on your words and (probably) your behavior and actions twords him.

My 8 yr old son is in an "rules-training" course at school (he misses other lessons meanwhile and has to work for it at home) since about a year. They do games there (like playing cards or monopoly and so on) and he improved his skills in playing fair  in those games and in losing them, which was a very big problem before (he was shouting and throwing things and became tantrums). Now playing with him is much more fun. He is still very competetive, but he is starting to learn that he does not have to be first or best all the time. It even got a tiny bit better with competitions in sports (which is something different and so he can't take what he learned to the sports-situation), but not much with his behavior in classroom, when he wants to be fastest in calculating or german.

So, some of those programs work.

Sibylle

Or maybe: some of the programs work for some of the kids

I'd be more inclind to believe J's girlfriend is leaving things out she doesn't consider importain, polit to say, or scared to say.  J's most likely telling you how he sees things, with any discroptenses possably being from him seeing the situation differently or misunderstanding things.

Sounds like J was probably being blunt and honest to me. Sounds like a question in need of an answer to me as well.

Yes. Apparently it never occurated to anyone else, that with all my school problems, that maybe an alternative was needed.  Instead I'd end up refusing to go back to school and being sent off to some mental hospital to be "fixed" every time it happend.  I would of suggested sooner if I'd know of alternatives to just refusing to goto school.  There weren't many schools where I grew up, so switching schools wasn't an option.

Well as I've been continuely saying, I wouldn't get involved unless he asks you to.

He may have taken your praising him for being able to keep a job, as thinking you didn't have any faith in his ability to do so, which might of been discouraging for him and turned what might of been something positive for him into something meaningless and which should be taken as no big deal.  The same things happend a ton of times to me, robbed of whatever positiveness there might of been from experences...

Honesty and bluntness seem to be common amoung us, yes.  Did you exspect him to tell you where he was and what he was doing when he was younger? I'm guessing yes.  If you want him to stop, your going to have to be proactive and try to slowly change that, otherwise he probably won't stop, because he might not know/reliese he doesn't need to do those things any more.  He might need to know its ok not to tell you everything thats going on and you'll need to change too. If say his girlfriend tries to tell you things, cut her short and say its not your business unless he wishes to bring it up.  You'll need a clear idea of what you want and release what you'll need to do different if you exspect it to work.  There will be a need for clear change and adjustment period and a good structure on whats to be done.  Like idealing if you want him to only bring something up when he needs advice, you'll need to let him know this, and ask him to only bring something up when he needs your advice for example because he isn't sure what to do. On your part you might have to remind him of this if he starts to tell you things, by asking him if there was something he was wanting advice on, if he had a question he wanted to ask you, etc.

It could make things worse, if its not what he wants, and your just doing it because thats what you think he needs.  Thats why I suggest talking to him about it to see what he wants, if he wants to or would be willing to get SSI.

I don't understand what he means, if you feed him and he lives with you, how having less money would stop him from being able to live.  As far as how to remedy that situation, I think I explained that above, however I'll try again.

He probably is use to telling you his problems, because you exspected him do, and you still seem to, because you feel he can't be trusted to do things without messing things up.  The cyle must be broken and you'll need to make the first move.  You'll need to be willing to let him make mistakes and mess things up before any other changes are possable.  Once your willlng to accept him messing things up, come up with a plan on how you want to approch trying to get him to not talk about his problems, unless he wants your advice on a problem he's having.
I really thing thats the first thing you shoud work on, if you can get to a point where he only brings up his problems he needs advice on, you and J will both feel better and it will be easier to move on from there.  Your role goes from being parent to mentor slowly, but it won't all happen on its own, without some help from you.  If you look back, I'm sure you'll recall times other changes were difficult with him and things that may or may not of helped.  Like when he first started school, or switched schools, or just getting him to get a job, etc.

Well I hope, this helps too.  You got your work cut out for you, its going to take lots of passionts, understanding and willness to rethink your own approches and make changes yourself.

Please take a look at the website Autistic People against Neuroleptic Abuse.

Risperdal is a dangerous drug that can cause permanent injury, especially when used on autistics, who are often unusually sensitive to medications.  (Also, because it has such strong effects, a person who is taking it should never stop suddenly, but should instead stop very gradually, under close medical supervision.)

If you have been told that all autistic people must take Risperdal or other anti-psychotic drugs in order to function, that is not true.  Autism is a developmental condition, not a psychosis, and many of us take no drugs at all.

You wrote that you are making monthly payments for his car and his insurance, and then there's maintenance and gas for his car, the cost of the speeding tickets, and so on.  I think if you sold the car, moved your son into a small apartment near his workplace, and bought him monthly bus passes so that he could get around the city, you would not be spending significantly more, and then you wouldn't have the stress of worrying about his unsafe driving.

As for muddling through: If you are paying his rent, you know he's not going to be homeless.  What's the worst thing that could happen?  If he runs out of food because he hasn't learned how to budget, he is not going to die of starvation, and you can bring him a few groceries.  If he loses his job because he doesn't get out of bed and go to work, he won't have any spending money, and that should motivate him to develop better habits.

He has to learn these things on his own; you can't keep on waking him up for work, etc., for the rest of his life.

Sometimes weeks and even months go by without my seeing anyone or talking to anyone except to ask for things in the shops.

This really gets me down.

:cry: Stella

*big online hug to Stella*