Vendaia, you may find it helpful to read some stories that include, or are told from the point of view of, autistic characters.
I have a collection of such stories on
Ventura33's Neurodiversity Page, and you can find more links on the
Autism in Fiction page of neurodiversity.com.
As for winning the lottery, because the number combinations are totally random, no amount of mathematical skills would improve a person's chances. (Best not to waste one's money on it!)
Brightman, it seems fairly clear to me that Vendaia is not a professional author, but a student trying to improve her writing skills and her understanding of autism. That is to be commended. Yes, she appears to have some romantic and inaccurate ideas, but when a person is making a sincere effort to learn, she shouldn't be criticized too harshly for ignorance.
Since it's tough for enough for me to figure out emotional states of others, I wonder how it is for someone who hasn't my ability to discern the semantic of body language and tone of voice.
The difficulty goes both ways. Autistic body language and tone of voice are often confusing to non-autistics. Sadly, there are some parents who do not know whether their autistic child loves them, just because the child's voice and body language don't match the parents' assumptions about how a child shows love.
When I started writing this story, I imagined the mom's emotional point of view. She felt abandoned by her child, since the child did not give her the responses she expected, that she needed.
Where I got stuck was the child's emotional point of view.
I expect the child would, at some point, become aware of the mom's feelings of frustration or disappointment, and the child would also feel abandoned to some extent. Even if the mom is careful to avoid saying anything negative, and even if the child can't read the mom's body language and tone of voice accurately, there may be some discrepancies in the mom's behavior and words.
For example, let's say the mom always tells the child that he is smart, capable, and will have a wonderful future. Then the mom overly praises the child for some small accomplishment (such as tying his shoelaces neatly) that wouldn't be significant for the average child of his age. The child starts to wonder if mom's expectations for him are really as high as she claims.
My problem as an artist is in imagining the inner state of an autistic person. I sat in that waiting room watching that autistic girl, certain that there was a lot going on in her head. She was extremely "low-functioning". What does that feel like, I wondered?
I suggest that you read Ballastexistenz, a blog written by an autistic woman who has been described as "low-functioning." She is an outspoken activist and has much to say about what it feels like to be treated as an object of curiosity by people who don't understand that she has feelings. (Just to clarify, I'm not referring to you personally.)
And in the end, diagnosis doesn't make a whit. Labels are BS. But a flower? Now that's something...
A daffodill won't get me help with filling out forms. A tulip won't keep my sensory overlaod at bay. A lily isn't going to help me recognise unfamiliar body language. A diagnosis will allow me to identify my problems so I can work on improving them and get access to any support services I may need. Our diagnosis may not matter a jot to you but it does to some of us, kindly show us a little respect in this matter`.
Could you please answer my
question Vendaia?
I think, and again I'm assuming here because I do not know what goes on inside your head, that you are reading more into my words than is actually there and missing what I am actually saying altogether. I have gotten a lot of that on NT orientated forums that I use to frequent. Are you reading my questions as an attack on your ability to do your work? If so, you were wrong, I meant for the questions to come accross exactly as they are written.
I never did fully work out why NT's do that other than perhaps to avoid an issue they'd rather not talk about but it still upset them enough to reply in a non-constructive manner in order to derail the discussion. Perhaps you could tell me why you do it Vendaia?
I don't know if you can ever understand what it is like to be autistic. It might be better if you wrote about your efforts to understand the boy and successful interactions that you, as an NT, have had with him. Being autistic is not the same as being different because you have "redhair". That analogy is politicall incorrect.
I think you might be right. None of us can ever understand fully what it means to be anyone but ourselves.
But I take profound exception to the politically incorrect thing. I am not looking for votes. I'm looking for help in understanding. I'm making an effort to get it right.
There may be no way I can write from the point of view of an autistic. But I can try.
Colleen McCullough wrote about Julius Caesar, from his point of view. Despite the fact that he slaughtered thousands of Gauls, I still wound up liking the guy. Go figure. I came to a better understanding of him as a human being, and the in which he lived. Colleen McCullough had done her homework. That's all I'm trying to do. I may not be a great writer. But I can try to be a good one.
A good writer is honest. Whatever she writes, it had better be honest. Otherwise it's tripe. There's no point in it, much less profit. And that's all I'm trying to do here - be honest. Whether I try to write the story from Ivor's point of view or not, I'm going to try to get it right. I'm going for honesty.
For the record: The label of Politically Incorrect is just some weak ***. I can't abide it. It's name calling, and obfuscating. Leave off the "politically" and I'm fine. Just "incorrect", "not accurate", "does not serve"... Fine. I can take that gracefully. But Politically Incorrect? Not for one second will I stand for it. That's just some Stalinistic chickenshit.
I think it is plain from my posts that I don't like labels or judgements. I grew up with Jim Crow. I've seen some Politically Incorrect stuff. I've experienced some of it because of my life path. What's Politically Incorrect is blaming folks who don't have wheels for not getting out of the way of the flood. And then patting yourself on the back for the way you handled the hurricane. That's Politically Incorrect.
And you don't even log onto the board with a name. You just come out of left field with no name, and label me. Bite me. You hear? Just bite me.
I showed up on the board as guest because although I thought I had logged in, I guess I didn't.
I agree with you that the term politically correct can be misused. Often I come across someone whose very strict about politically correct terms, but then, when I look at the way they live or make their money, their use of the term becomes relatively meaningless. In this particular case I was using the term to point out to you that being different because one has red hair is not the same as being different because one is autistic. Obviously having red hair is a cosmetic difference (racism against celts nonwithstanding) whereas being autistic is a much more profound difference. By comparing us to people who are different because they have red hair you diminish the profundity of our difference. I live everyday of my life with cognitiveily different perceptions than others. It feels quite diminishing to be compared to someone with a superficial cosmetic difference. You asked for information and I gave it.
And in the end, diagnosis doesn't make a whit. Labels are BS. But a flower? Now that's something...
I don't get the significance of the flower. Sure, they're pretty and all but can flowers be compared to balloons? Or how about graham crackers? I have to tell you that I think your use of symbolism is weak, you're not really writing to us with meaning. It's sort of this pretend crap. If you want to be a better writer you should become more honest with yourself and others about what it is you really mean to express. Otherwise you're going to end up writing things that are dishonest and lacking in depth and when it comes to portraying auties this could have negative consequences for those of us whose lives you are attempting to portray.
Even your use of the symbol of a flower is incorrect in political terms. Postmodernism does away with grand narrative. We can't draw universal meanings from a flower. One flower could be indigenous, another could be grown by some poor exploited person in some underdeveloped country for shipment to the West. Therefore, the use of the generic flower as a symbol is not specific enough to hold any real meaning except to impose a meaning given by the dominant culture.
Brightman, it seems fairly clear to me that Vendaia is not a professional author, but a student trying to improve her writing skills and her understanding of autism. That is to be commended.
She defined herself as a writer and said that she grew up around the late 50's, that suggested to me that she is a professional writer or author.
You're right, Brightman, we were both jumping to conclusions, and mine didn't have any more basis than yours.
I do understand that most autistics are not savants. The reported incidence is 10%. And not all savants are autistic. I could make my character non-autistic.
But the essence of story is conflict. No conflict - no story.
Vendaia, the need for a dramatic conflict does not excuse the careless use of cultural stereotypes, from the standpoint of either literary merit or social responsibility. An autistic character does not have to be a savant in order to create a conflict, any more than an African-American character has to be a professional basketball player, or a Jewish character has to be a wealthy banker, or an Italian character has to be a mafioso.
Stereotypes are a lazy substitute for the mental work required to create a complex, true-to-life character and a meaningful plot with a genuinely believable conflict.
By the way, this is the reason why I assumed you were a part-time student taking a creative writing class. A professional writer would know better.
As for this comment...
I find it a little ironic that Emoticons are available on this board.
You may not have intended to be rude, but that's a prejudiced statement. It implies that you think we shouldn't have emoticons because we're not capable of using them intelligently. That is equivalent to a white person going into a forum for black activists and commenting that she's surprised to find ads for university courses.
Here's some copy from a lady advertising her coaching:
<snip>
Is any of this true, or is this stereotyping?
I'd describe that advertisement as exploitative flattery.
And when it comes to stereotyping, I think I can be a little sensitive to that danger. I am a male-to-female post-operative transsexual. Riffle through your mental pictures. Any sterotyping going on? Want to go visit one of our Internet communities, ask a few questions in an effort to understand what that's all about? Care to try to write a story with a main character who's M2F post-op? Get inside her head? See the world through her eyes?
If I did so, and the members of your community told me that my character was an unrealistic stereotype, I would pay attention to their concerns and would proceed to revise my story accordingly. I would not, as you seemed to be doing, respond with a dismissive lecture on the need for conflict in a story and insist that the stereotype was necessary for conflict.
Perhaps that was not your intent. In the interest of avoiding a flame war, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and to withdraw my comment about professionalism.
Ok I think my main annoyance is why the focus on autistic savants and not just the rest of us that are normal or above-average that aren't savants? After all only about 10% from what I read of Autistics are Savants as well. It's like continuing with this "Rainman" image of Autistics that doesn't help us because they expect us to be all 'savants' or all 'low functioning'. What is with the 'romanticism' so to speak with autistics having to always be portrayed as savants or mentally challenged in books and film? If you really want people to understand those on the autism spectrum, don't limit to stereotypes. As I tell people and have been told myself, once you've see one Autistic/Aspie, you've seen just that... one person. Just from looking at that one person you can't portray those on the autism spectrum near effectively and accurately without putting misconceptions at play. You only end up effectively causing more damage than good. That's just my honest opinion.
I think the pattern of a seven year old boy thinking would be very different from the pattern of a thirteen year old, or a thirty year old. It would also change itself throughout the day. There may be sun and shadows of meaning. Is it not just a matter of degree of sun and or shadow?
I am liking your curiousity. I don't mind trying to figure out metaphors. I use a lot myself, so I use them for you. The story you write, Vendaia, will be a historical document for the mother and child you write for. But it could not be used to predict the future for the relationship. It would be interesting to make a word sketch now and in a years time, to make another. Watch the imperceptible changes. They will happen.
Who knows what a persons emotional toolbox is capable of at any given time? What colours can be acertained? We assume we are born with the capacity to see the same colours as everyone else. But i learn from researchers, each of us has different ratio of visual receptors. Some have more/less of cones/rods. Such complexity we humans.
But I am still lost, because I do not know whether my mother loves me or whether i love her. But the knowing of this has come about very recently. The knowing is very important. No matter how many words I know, if i do not use the right ones so that somebody else hears what I MEAN, then i will not even know i am lost. This is a growing point. ouch.
That said, i would not change the tools i have been born with. And i do not want anyone to think i represent anyone other than myself. I am not typical. I hope one day the boy you know can tell you what you ask.
becca
So folks, if you feel so inclined, steer me clear of misconceptions, stereotyping, tell me something of yourselves, whatever you want to say. But don't take offense. I didn't come here to offend. When people ask me about myself and my situation, I don't take offense. I try to tell them what it is like, how it feels, what my life journey has been like. I try to build understanding.
Any chance you could answer my question then?
It does, thank you :smile:
Did you finish your story, Vendaia?
I don't know that Rain Man really caused people to come away with the wrong ideas. It seemed to me that there was a bit more going on in the family than just Rain Man having autistic savantism.
His brother and father also showed signs of autism - possibly HFA or Aspergers. They both seemed hyperfocused on certain subjects and had difficulties in expressing emotions.
I doubt his brother was on the spectrum but he certainly had traits, thanks for bringing this up - he seems to struggle with emotions and social things quite a lot too, just in a more "NT-friendly" way.