Since reading about AS, I notice a fairly large proportion of people don't make eye contact when speaking to me or other people. Even though I've been observing a non-random group (mostly maths/science sophomore students at my university) they're likely not all aspies. What are other possible causes?
Since reading about AS, I notice a fairly large proportion of people don't make eye contact when speaking to me or other people. Even though I've been observing a non-random group (mostly maths/science sophomore students at my university) they're likely not all aspies. What are other possible causes?
nerviousness, shyness, lying, feeling intimidated, feeling inferior, blind, ADD...
There is some kind of a rule, I dont fully know the details, but its something like - when you talk to someone they look away, and then when they reply to you, you look away, which is supposed to be non-challenging.
They dont constantly eye gaze, but they seem to do it all naturally. I have noticed Judge Judy does something like that. I watch it whenever I can, its very interesting, she has a very good logic.
mostly maths/science sophomore students...
Actually, I think you might have quite a high frequency of Asperger's in that group! :wink:
You need to check out people from other segments of society/your university -- people studying business or the arts maybe.... :smile:
mostly maths/science sophomore students...
Actually, I think you might have quite a high frequency of Asperger's in that group! :wink:
How high would be "high"? :wink:
Shyness is probably quite common?
If you make eye contact with people, it encourages them to try to make more eye contact with you. But if you're rarely looking when they try to make eye contact, then the more astute ones will stop trying. A lot of friendly things are like that- if you respond with to what they see as friendliness with the same actions they use, then they're likely to continue doing those things, but if you don't, then some of them will stop.
I don't know if NTs consider things like this but... I'm more likely to look at people if they're not standing in front of really distracting things. Since I tend to put those things at my back, if I was facing me I'd be less likely to make eye contact.
I HAD to post something here! I generally do very well with socializing & eye contact, but I find myself pulling away from making eye contact under these circumstances:
1. If I dislike the person, esp. if I question the validity of my dislike or am not in a position to fully snub the person. There are people who disturb my psychic airspace; I just can't get comfortable with them, or they send mixed messages, or they seem condescending or make stupid, unfunny jokes or are overly friendly and seem to expect a lot of warmth from me in return. There are people I can't help disliking, but since they haven't really done anything "wrong," or because I may be in a work situation & unable to walk away, I find I literally cannot look them in the eye. I get agitated, I may feel somewhat trapped, if they are keeping me from what I'm supposed to be doing, or they are demanding more emotional engagement than I can deliver, I withdraw to keep them from getting even more into my face & space.
2. If I am working, getting things done on a real or even self-imposed deadline, and people keep breaking into my little work bubble to talk to me, esp. if I feel they are rushing me, I can become FURIOUS. :evil: Likewise, if everyone is talking at me at once, if I have a hectic few minutes and people keep pushing me, the stress builds, and I don't blow up, but I'm sure my agitation shows in my face. Under those circumstances, I will again try to avoid or limit eye contact, again to protect myself against further intrusion.
3. If I am in a new place with a lot of strangers, I can also become rattled and a bit overstressed. Years ago, I had to find a new place to live, and I went for an interview at a house occupied by an older engaged couple and their housemates. Everyone was new to me, and I became a bit paranoid in my observations of them---"What's up with their relationship? Why is HE the social director for the two of them? That's usually the woman's role! And they expect me to COOK one night a week? Oh no! They're all so weird!" Needless to say, I didn't move in THERE! The point is, if I am surrounded by NEWNESS---strangers, esp. a lot of them, so that I feel outnumbered---I get nervous, paranoid, :shock: resentful, angry, and I pull back & don't WANT to make eye contact. Not that I feel it that strongly all the time...but then again, I seldom change my routine, which greatly reduces the odds of being thrown into a roomful of strangers and being expected to connect with them ALL AT ONCE, which is what I sometimes feel is expected. Hope this helps!
(Yikes. Here's the one-word summary: OVERSTIMULATION!!!!)
couldbecousin, have you looked into avoidant personality disorder?
Some people who have thought they may be aspies were later diagnosed with that, it might be a possibility for people who dont quite fit on the spectrum.
Avoidant personality disorder makes people very sensitive to criticism, they avoid people and eye contact because they are so worried what people may be thinking. (very brief summing up there).
Since reading about AS, I notice a fairly large proportion of people don't make eye contact when speaking to me or other people. Even though I've been observing a non-random group (mostly maths/science sophomore students at my university) they're likely not all aspies. What are other possible causes?
I have an idea about that: television.
From a young age, kids watch TV. They see "important" people being interviewed, and these people never look at them. Never mind that they're looking at the interviewer, that's not obvious to Aspies or little kids. So they learn that when you have something important to say, you DON'T look at your audience. It's a little thing, but it's another example of how television is changing our culture.
couldbecousin, have you looked into avoidant personality disorder?
Some people who have thought they may be aspies were later diagnosed with that, it might be a possibility for people who dont quite fit on the spectrum.
Avoidant personality disorder makes people very sensitive to criticism, they avoid people and eye contact because they are so worried what people may be thinking. (very brief summing up there).
Amy, I read your other post listing the characteristics of avoidant personality disorder and it doesn't sound like what I was trying to explain in my gaze-avoidance post. Not that I never feel inadequate or fear criticism, but the discomfort I feel in situations involving strange people & routines is really a feeling of being BESEIGED, of being in a situation that demands more attention and "presence," which is always a bit jarring to me because I so seldom go anywhere completely unfamiliar. As for situations in which people are too much in my space or all demanding things of me at once, again, I feel, not fearful of rejection or criticism, but just overtaxed. I just don't like all that input at one time. I know I don't fit the AS profile very well in many respects, but I really don't identify with the avoidant-personalty one at all. Anyway, thank you for thinking of me, but whatever category I belong in (if any!), APD isn't it.
I gave a very brief summing up, have you checked the criteria for APD?
I am wary of people saying they dont fit aspergers, but then still thinking they are an aspie if they havent checked all options.
Personally I would want to check all options to really know fully.
i think i personally have several reasons for gaze avoidance.
1. when i look at people i have a tendency to end up staring/eyeballing them, even though i dont mean to!
2. plain old shyness when it comes to new people. although actually now that i think about it i think my eye contact might be better with strangers sometimes than with others, because i have been trained to be polite when meeting with people-- you're just more conscious of it.
3. my eyes just wander all over the place when I'm talking, even more so when im thinking hard when I'm talking.
I gave a very brief summing up, have you checked the criteria for APD?
I am wary of people saying they dont fit aspergers, but then still thinking they are an aspie if they havent checked all options.
Personally I would want to check all options to really know fully.
Yes, I have checked this out further online and it doesn't sound like me. Some of the social avoidance is the same but the motives are quite different. APD sounds incredibly painful and, I'm grateful to say, I can't relate to most of it. As far as Asperger's is concerned, I DON'T fit all of the criteria, but I have stated as much in many of my posts. Even my username was chosen to indicate that at most I MIGHT be a person at the near-normal end of the spectrum. I have no intention of declaring myself an aspie without first having been officially diagnosed. In the meantime I hope it's OK for me to continue posting questions...