As a way to deal with NTs (before I knew I was AS) I would watch 1940's movies and imitate the women movie stars. I felt like I was rising above the bullying and ignoring and scorn and 'you're weird' and saying, see I'm elegant and refined and beautiful and above you and don't need you, so there. Makeup was a part of that. Then I incurred jealousy and 'she's stuckup' and that hurt (oh can NT women be incredibly mean when they're jealous!!!!!) but I was so glad not to be looked down upon. I even sold Mary Kay! and failed at it of course, but I was good at being able to pick out what colors looked good on people. Now I wear a minimum of makeup to get by in society--on my job, etc.
Hi, not wearing makeup at work today, here, and feeling like myself! When I look in the mirror, I see me! Thank you thank you, fellow aspies for being there! My husband, who knew I was AS didn't want to tell me because he saw me struggling with social things and being upset about being different and trying so hard, he thought I'd flip out and say, "I'm a freak" and be depressed and give up. Little did he know I was going through a depression at feeling in-between two worlds (betwixt and between) and just sat in limbo staring into space. Now I know who I am and feel joy and can figure out the things I do and where I fit into the continuum and can approach NTs with an 'I'm okay, you're okay' attitude and treat them as different while still loving them as fellow humans. My anxiety is greatly lessened and I feel much happier. I can celebrate it!
My name is Liane Holliday Willey. I have AS and I have a tiny mostly neglected website at
http://www.aspie.com which serves as a place I go only now and then to post information I really am interested in or really want to share. I would like to respond to the folks who have criticized 1) my website and 2) my thoughts on AS girls who wish to wear make-up. To point 1. My webpage is not meant to be anything much more than a blog. I am completely overwhelmed with the probono work I'm asked to do, and my real job, and raising my kids and keeping my home, to the extent I cannot turn much time to my website. I only began it at all, per the request of some who wanted my speaking schedule and some idea about my thoughts. The spelling on the website is likely terrible. Like many with AS, I failed phonics and to this day, I do not spell well. I do use spell check, but often I do not know which word is the correct word. I suffer from all sorts of learning disabilities and poor spelling is one. My appologies to the person who mentioned they never thought much about my site and my poor spelling, but it is the best I can do and I never set out to pretend to be a great webmaster or speller.
As to point 2. I like make-up. I know a lot of people with AS (men included) who like to experiment with make-up, acne cover-up, etc. Because I have found make-up to be expensive and often difficult to apply properly, I thought it would be the kind thing to do to ask my friend to take time out from her busy schedule to help anyone with AS who felt like I did. Never did I say anyone should wear make-up. It is a personal decision and I support those who do, or do not, wear it.
I am sad that people are criticizing me without even knowing me. I do not like it when people assume they know what I am thinking, what my intent in writing something is. I have been painted as someone who is not a very good AS advocate and that makes me very, very sad.
I have been on record as saying we are all in this together, and I wish we didn't say mean things about one another. The world does that for us.
Liane Holliday Willey
:?
Hi again everyone,
In response to:
I understand this "we are all in the same boat so be nice" mentality. to a certain extent I agree with it. But the fact too many of us are acting like uncle toms and not displaying the courage of a jerry newport. To often the submissive, poor diseased me aspie is chosen as the speakers at conferences. AFF has yet to be allowed to send a speaker to single NT- run conference. Cos we are too "scary" in standing up for a viewpoint that it is okay be us and it is okay to be even proud to be one of us.
I want to say-I'm one of the speakers who affirms our right to be ourselves. And I have to say I think the tide is changing in our direction, toward that belief. At last years ASA, I got a standing ovation after I stated there are far too few people of color, low income and female persuassions being represented. I maintained we should be applauded for who we are and not what we should be. What strikes me as odd is the person who tells me I talk about AS as if it is too light a thing, too easy to deal with. Seems if we come out saying we should be who we are, people get upset with us for not conforming and being realistic. And if we come out saying we have a hard time of things and need to be like others, we are criticized for not being independent enough. I say, to each his own but as for me- I'll defend the rights of all those with civil liberties in question because of unique or disabling characterisics. Man, now I'm freaking out because I know my spelling problems are going to make someone upset. Life, she is a *** sometimes. :-)
Liane
With all due respect, I think the issue of wearing or not wearing make-up is innocuous at best and not something that should take up too much of anyone's thoughts. Women in multiple cultures have long altered their appearance through cosmetic application. Some of our most powerful female leaders have worn plenty of make-up, and some of our most powerful female leaders have worn none at all. I think every human has a right to alter their appearance as they see fit and the truth is many females be they Aspie or not, will choose to use make-up. IMHO, we've much bigger issues than this, to pursue. However, I did take my make-up post off of my website so as to quickly end this debate. I will not, though, agree that I have hurt anyone by providing an opportunity to discuss make-up and skin care issues with a professional. I think we as women should support one another have we a face full of make-up or a face devoid of all traces of the stuff. Bottom line: we should all do and be applauded for whatever personal appearance decisions we make. And you can bet your bottom dollar that if any of my employers ever told me to wear make-up or hit the road, I’d hit the road. If any man told me to wear make-up or take a hike, I’d take the hike. I can’t believe I’m the only woman out there in AS land who simply enjoys make-up. Period. No more, no less.
Blimey! I can't believe how some information on a website about a cosmetics consultant - effectively an ad for a friend and a small-scale fundraising exercise - generated so much hostility?!?
It's only cosmetics, fripperies, really superficial stuff, why get so wound up about it to the point of sending hostile emails and criticising a person in that way? I mean, it's not like she called for the euthanasia of Aspies or condoned job discrimination or anything is it? Sheesh!
As Aspies, we're all individuals, just as NTs are. Just as you get some NTs who are obsessed with fashion and designer labels and appearance, likewise you might get some Aspies who are interested in these things. And just as you get some NTs who aren't, there will also be Aspies who aren't.
Can we please stop criticising each other for having different likes and dislikes, different interests and opinions when the subject matter in question is not fundamentally harmful in any way?
Personally speaking, I don't always wear makeup, but I'll get dolled up if I'm going out with friends, and I've worked in some jobs in the past where appearance has mattered and where office/courtroom attire such as smart suit , tidy and well-styled hair and the wearing of cosmetics were required.
Being Aspie did not preclude me from any of those jobs and it wasn't a matter of feeling I had to conform with an NT lifestyle or being pressured to do the same, it was simply a work uniform, like I wore a school uniform, like working as a waitress I had to wear black and whites (black skirt/white blouse).
If I were an Aspie who didn't feel comfortable wearing smart clothes and cosmetics, I don't think I would have felt particularly discriminated against in those circumstances, because sometimes in life there are conventions and traditions that *ALL* people are expected to adhere to and Aspies aren't singled out to be made uncomfortable or to be excluded, because an NT who had visible tattoos, red-dyed hair and facial piercings would also have been expected to conform, and if they didn't they wouldn't have got the job.
Some people are happy with conforming with certain things, others aren't. Some NTs wear makeup, some don't. Some Aspies wear makeup, some don't. We shouldn't be criticised for our choices in this respect, because we are all different, we are all individuals.
Thanks to EnglishLuLu for making my point more eloquently than I did.
And for what it's worth, I do not consider myself an expert in AS. I have only spoken about my experiences, and the experiences others have given me permission to share. I'm nothing more than a mouthpiece who spoke out about her experiences in a tiny attempt to ripple the wave of AS information. I happen to have a background in theater and that background makes me crave public speaking. Any one of us could share easily as many experiences as I share. I'm just the dope that tossed out a line and said to anyone interested, "Reel me in and let me do some talking on AS." I make very few dollars for speaking and most of that goes to the scholarship that supports people who are interested in studying PDDs, not as one would study mice in a maze, but rather in an attempt to understand how others think so that positive supports might be built. We're all equal in our attempts to serve our community. Let's give all of us the freedom to do just that, in our own ways.
Regards,
Liane
tenaciouscj said
Also, I have a problem with make-up being tested on animals and would be interested to know if Mary Kay cosmetics are tested on animals or if any of the individual ingredients are
I too will not support testing products on animals. Dogs are one of my obsessions. Below you will read a note from PETA that supports Mary Kay. I rarely wear make-up myself, but I do like it and I use it to cover up some wicked acne scars. Ironically, I don't like Mary Kay foundation! I do like their business philosophy which is the main reason I posted the Mary Kay bit on my website. They really applaud and support women who need/want alternative careers. They also provide 100% return on the consultant's investment and I like that. Places like Mary Kay give women like me who are agrophobic a fighting chance to make a living. I'd not have to leave my house, but could still sell MK online.
Bottom line- I was just trying to give a friendly nod to a good cosmetic company that supports women of all kinds/shapes/sizes/needs which does not test on animals; a friend who is trying to start her business; a way to get a few dollars in the scholarship; and finally, to other women with AS an opportunity to find a user friendly company when trying to find make-up. Heck, I far prefer shopping for make-up and similar items online, so I don't have to go show my ignorance on the subject in the public arena.
This will be all I say on the subject and I hope you all know my intent was never more than the above.
From PETA April 22, 1999
Dallas -- Carrying a sign reading, "Animals are tickled pink with Mary Kay," a giant "rabbit" will celebrate the company's new cruelty-free policy. Donning party hats and toasting with pink champagne, members of PETA will join the "rabbit" to deliver pink flowers and gratitude to the company for its signing of the Corporate Standard of Compassion for Animals:
Mary Kay ranks as the largest cosmetics company to sign the Corporate Standard of Compassion for Animals, a stringent, internationally accepted standard put forth by the Coalition for Consumer Information on Cosmetics, of which PETA is a member.
Mary Kay is concerned with product safety and states, "Having assessed the current degree of scientific knowledge, the company does not foresee any situation in which animal testing might be necessary in the future." The company is also working toward the elimination of all animal ingredients.
starting from my "mostly normal" male point of view, women who are obviously wearing makeup get on my nerves. I think that Parliament actually passed an act against women wearing makeup, back in the reign of one of the Stuart kings.
Let me explain this:
Women who attempt to attract my affection by improving their appearance are, well, cheating.
Now, If I were already married to a woman I liked, and both of us were getting old, and the "juices" were flowing more slowly, you betcha I would spring for all sorts of sexy makeup, plastic surgery, whatever she wanted, if it helped me to maintain a loving lustful state of mind for my sweety.