08-31-2005, 02:50 PM
08-31-2005, 03:28 PM
'bout what I expect
an aspie fashionista -LOL
Write MaryKay instead tell them we dont need your stinking NT costumes for social positioning and manipulation.
She is part of the problem just like stephen shore.
Yes I am starting my own business POWER TOOLS FOR ASPIES
YES aspie man sometimes you feel lil "shorted" (ahem) well Just like for NTS there is power tools!!!! Just imagine the surge of masculinity you feel when you hold a power drill (that has an extra long drill bit). you feel like a new man (a whole man) proudly strut in the glow in your new manliness. It wil do wonders for your self confidence. Hell, you might even make the one friend you always wanted to have your whole life. The possibilities are endless!!!
So pick up a power tool today and feel the good vibrations!!!!
==============================
bleh
an aspie fashionista -LOL
Write MaryKay instead tell them we dont need your stinking NT costumes for social positioning and manipulation.
She is part of the problem just like stephen shore.
Yes I am starting my own business POWER TOOLS FOR ASPIES
YES aspie man sometimes you feel lil "shorted" (ahem) well Just like for NTS there is power tools!!!! Just imagine the surge of masculinity you feel when you hold a power drill (that has an extra long drill bit). you feel like a new man (a whole man) proudly strut in the glow in your new manliness. It wil do wonders for your self confidence. Hell, you might even make the one friend you always wanted to have your whole life. The possibilities are endless!!!
So pick up a power tool today and feel the good vibrations!!!!
==============================
bleh
08-31-2005, 03:42 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:
08-31-2005, 05:50 PM
Jockey Wrote:
This is aspies for freedom. Freedom from having to become like nts, freedom to become like nts. Freedom is a choice. So ok, you, I, and most aspies aren't interested in makeup. But for those who lack the knack but not the interest, it's good that somebody should be able to help.
an interest for an aspie is not the same as for an NT so please.
and the notion to be free to become NT is like saying I am free to be something I am not
08-31-2005, 06:26 PM
hey you know thinking about it it is a distortion. You are dead wrong.cos gay freedom has nothing to do with free to be straight. so gays for freedom is freedom to be straight or become straight???
duh
absolutely not.
is this now anima, farm in 1984 with double speak.
this isnt therapy is it is blatant commercialism.
duh
absolutely not.
is this now anima, farm in 1984 with double speak.
this isnt therapy is it is blatant commercialism.
08-31-2005, 06:53 PM
There is probably an aspie woman somewhere who is obsessed with makeup and has a huge Mary Kay collection.
Thankfully, not me.
But even if I wanted to buy makeup, contributing to a psychology scholarship is definitely not the way to get my business. The last thing we need is more psychologists studying us like lab rats.
Now, if she were contributing to a scholarship for students who had shown an interest in social justice by writing essays about neurodiversity, I might bite. (Actually, sponsoring an essay contest might be a good idea for something AFF could do.)
Thankfully, not me.
But even if I wanted to buy makeup, contributing to a psychology scholarship is definitely not the way to get my business. The last thing we need is more psychologists studying us like lab rats.
Now, if she were contributing to a scholarship for students who had shown an interest in social justice by writing essays about neurodiversity, I might bite. (Actually, sponsoring an essay contest might be a good idea for something AFF could do.)
09-01-2005, 03:12 AM
I never have thought much of Lianne with her web site full of spelling errors and little substance.
What do you'all think the cosmetician was referring to in this bit?
What do you'all think the cosmetician was referring to in this bit?
Quote:
Liane has shared with me how difficult it is for women with Asperger's to buy and use skin care and make-up.
I wish this had been explained. My only barrier to buying and using cosmetics products is a lack of interest, lack of need (contrary to what you may assume I do not lead a glamorous life) and lack of money. I've got to admit that I've been tempted to buy a camoflauge outfit and matching camo make up at army surplus stores, but that gear really doesn't fit my suburban mum lifestyle.
I can think of only one reason why an aspie female might need special advice about cosmetics. I believe hair-pulling (trichotillomania) is unusually common amongst aspies. This almost harmless little habit can leave one rather deficient in eyelashes or other kinds of hair, and it can be necessary to use make up to cover for this. I figured out all by myself how to deal with this problem many years ago. I'll bet this cosmetician knows nothing at all about this stuff. If anyone wants any advice that I can offer on this matter they can contact me by private message.
09-01-2005, 12:53 PM
Amy Wrote:
For make up, if you go to a department store that sells such products, you can usually ask for a free test, makeover, of the products, if you book in advance.
I had an Aveda makeover once and I bought the products only to find that I couldn't replicate the look afterwards. Apart from the problem I mentioned earlier with foundation, I find that mascara always smudges off my lower lashes and gives me panda eyes.
09-07-2005, 01:46 AM
LHWilley Wrote:
I am sad that people are criticizing me without even knowing me. I do not like it when people assume they know what I am thinking, what my intent in writing something is. I have been painted as someone who is not a very good AS advocate and that makes me very, very sad.
I have been on record as saying we are all in this together, and I wish we didn't say mean things about one another. The world does that for us.
Liane Holliday Willey
:?
I have been on record as saying we are all in this together, and I wish we didn't say mean things about one another. The world does that for us.
Liane Holliday Willey
:?
Liane
Hi
I hope your nose is better. But didnt you think my aspie power tool parody wasnt at least bit funny??
I understand this "we are all in the same boat so be nice" mentality. to a certain extent I agree with it. But the fact too many of us are acting like uncle toms and not displaying the courage of a jerry newport. To often the submissive, poor diseased me aspie is chosen as the speakers at conferences. AFF has yet to be allowed to send a speaker to single NT- run conference. Cos we are too "scary" in standing up for a viewpoint that it is okay be us and it is okay to be even proud to be one of us.
09-07-2005, 02:44 AM
Dont
worry
I cant spell either. it is a pain sometimes the hyper perfectionist aspies out there.
Welcome to AFF tho. Now you are part of the awares conferen by autism cymru. my q is why isnt Amy or gareth invited? but silly putty shore is ???
worry
I cant spell either. it is a pain sometimes the hyper perfectionist aspies out there.
Welcome to AFF tho. Now you are part of the awares conferen by autism cymru. my q is why isnt Amy or gareth invited? but silly putty shore is ???
09-12-2005, 02:28 PM
Well said Enigmatic_Oddity.
Just one point, do you have a link for this gillbert study?
Just one point, do you have a link for this gillbert study?
09-16-2005, 04:10 AM
LHWilley Wrote:
I can’t believe I’m the only woman out there in AS land who simply enjoys make-up. Period. No more, no less.
Liane
I would find that hard to believe as well. But I think the reaction stemmed from the fustration of the female aspies of trying to fit in and the freedom not to be NT like is what is sought. No one questions a women who wears makeup but I am sure a women who doesnt can be described as a tomboy. The number of women who wear makeup of some sort vastly outnumber the women who dont. Because of culture.
09-16-2005, 04:27 AM
I regret not watching this topic for a while, as it has had so many interesting comments.
M, I was disgusted whe I read about your bad experiences at job interviews and in the workplace. These are the the kinds of social justice issues that I feel most strongly about, and would most like to see remedied. Unfair and mindless discrimination as a worker or job-seeker are not just issues that affect aspies, anyone who presents in a way that can be seen as unatttractive or odd can be subject to this kind of injustice as well, older job-seekers, overweight people, odd-looking people, disabled people etc.
Ms Willey, I hope you have seen what a sensitive and controversial issue makeup and personal appearance can be for aspies, specifically female aspies. Judging by your most recent post I'm not sure that you have fully appreciated this.
You do speaking engagements and write books about AS. You are considered some kind of authority on AS. If you do know so much about aspies and AS, surely you can't claim to not know that there are a good many aspies who do not so much have trouble with "putting on an image", but it is more the case that they never did buy into the idea of fancy images or conforming to fashions and trivial norms. There are aspies who reject and critique the characteristically NT obsession with image, and you should have known that promoting make up for aspies would provoke a conflict with such aspies. I don't think this aspie rejection of makeup and image-making is fully attributable to feminist theory or other ideological positions. My aspie husband is no feminist (!) but he always laughs at me when he sees me applying make up. He just doesn't see what the point of make up is. He thinks it is ridiculous.
It has become clear to me from reading posts in this topic that some aspie females have more of an inclination towards a characteristically masculine attitude towards appearance and behaviour than one would expect in a representative group of NT females. Prof Simon Baron-Cohen has observed an inclination towards masculine behaviour in aspie females. I even saw a reference to a "Tomboyism Questionnire" in one of his books. Once again, this is something that you should have been well aware of if you are the authority on AS that many people think you are. I'm constantly amazed at the high proportion of aspie females who declare that they are lesbian or bi or have had these kinds of experiences. I'm straight myself, but I have never been a very feminine dresser. If you were to offer make up advice to a group of lesbians, I can imagine that all kinds of interesting responses could be expected. :wink: I have a good friend who is a lesbian, and I can't remember the last time I saw her wear a skirt. It could have been our high school uniform. I wouldn't be game to offer her make up advice. :lol:
I can see that there might be aspies who have issues with trich or dyspraxia who might need advice on using make up, if they wish to use it. Is this the kind of advice that the make up expert was willing to offer to aspies?
M, I was disgusted whe I read about your bad experiences at job interviews and in the workplace. These are the the kinds of social justice issues that I feel most strongly about, and would most like to see remedied. Unfair and mindless discrimination as a worker or job-seeker are not just issues that affect aspies, anyone who presents in a way that can be seen as unatttractive or odd can be subject to this kind of injustice as well, older job-seekers, overweight people, odd-looking people, disabled people etc.
Ms Willey, I hope you have seen what a sensitive and controversial issue makeup and personal appearance can be for aspies, specifically female aspies. Judging by your most recent post I'm not sure that you have fully appreciated this.
You do speaking engagements and write books about AS. You are considered some kind of authority on AS. If you do know so much about aspies and AS, surely you can't claim to not know that there are a good many aspies who do not so much have trouble with "putting on an image", but it is more the case that they never did buy into the idea of fancy images or conforming to fashions and trivial norms. There are aspies who reject and critique the characteristically NT obsession with image, and you should have known that promoting make up for aspies would provoke a conflict with such aspies. I don't think this aspie rejection of makeup and image-making is fully attributable to feminist theory or other ideological positions. My aspie husband is no feminist (!) but he always laughs at me when he sees me applying make up. He just doesn't see what the point of make up is. He thinks it is ridiculous.
It has become clear to me from reading posts in this topic that some aspie females have more of an inclination towards a characteristically masculine attitude towards appearance and behaviour than one would expect in a representative group of NT females. Prof Simon Baron-Cohen has observed an inclination towards masculine behaviour in aspie females. I even saw a reference to a "Tomboyism Questionnire" in one of his books. Once again, this is something that you should have been well aware of if you are the authority on AS that many people think you are. I'm constantly amazed at the high proportion of aspie females who declare that they are lesbian or bi or have had these kinds of experiences. I'm straight myself, but I have never been a very feminine dresser. If you were to offer make up advice to a group of lesbians, I can imagine that all kinds of interesting responses could be expected. :wink: I have a good friend who is a lesbian, and I can't remember the last time I saw her wear a skirt. It could have been our high school uniform. I wouldn't be game to offer her make up advice. :lol:
I can see that there might be aspies who have issues with trich or dyspraxia who might need advice on using make up, if they wish to use it. Is this the kind of advice that the make up expert was willing to offer to aspies?
09-17-2005, 01:34 AM
EnglishLulu Wrote:
As Aspies, we're all individuals, just as NTs are. Just as you get some NTs who are obsessed with fashion and designer labels and appearance, likewise you might get some Aspies who are interested in these things. And just as you get some NTs who aren't, there will also be Aspies who aren't..
hi EnglishLulu
We just expressed our opinion. And nobody here said a bad thing about willey at all. Just questioned the wisdom on the cosmetics.
Also we are all individuals. yes. But the pressure to be NT is so great and accepted. ABA is a therapy based on the belief to be NT or almost NT -like is the only way to have a meaningful life. part of that in our culture is for women to wear make up
09-17-2005, 05:46 AM
I know there are many dress rules in workplaces and all kinds of social settings. I'm not an idiot. My point is that I disagree with a lot of those dress and appearance rules, and why shouldn't I, as Englishlulu pointed out, the whole make up and appearance thing is just a triviality. Why should people be passed over for jobs or given a hard time because of trivialities? Just the other week we had a federal government politician arguing for the banning of Islamic head-scarves in government schools. It's hard to believe, but it's true. While fashion itself is a triviality, the forces of conformity are an expression of power and class, race, and gender politics, which is indeed important stuff.
An aspie who dresses plain (as all of the aspies who I know, male and female, usually do) is not totally comparable with an NT who has dyed hair and peircings. The NT chooses to go out of their way to make a fashion or cultural statement by deciding to wear all of their gear, while the aspie who has a plain and simple presentation is not necessarily making a choice or statement of any kind, they are just not interested in the whole fashion/class/subculture thing, and they are simply being themself.
I was recently browsing a list of upcoming books about AS. One title was about AS and sexuality. According to the blurb about the book it covered "gender identity disorders". I wondered in what way this kind of thing is relevant to AS. I also wondered if the whole idea of "gender identity disorder" is in some way wrong. Surely it is up to the individual to decide what their own identity is. I guess if other people disagree with or can't live with their opinion, then the person is judged by others to have a gender identity disorder. I will probably never get to read the book and find out what the author has to say, as our local library system gets few books about AS.
Thinking about the whole issue brought back memories of a bossy aunty of mine who gave me cosmetics as a gift and tried to do the makeover thing on me, and would ask me stuff like "Do you have a boyfriend yet?" Over the years I figured out that she didn't really want to get to know ME, she didn't want to help me to develop into the best person that I could be, her aim was to create me in the image of the neice that she had in her imagination, or at least nudge me in that direction as far I she could, and as a person she was so much of a phoney that she couldn't even see what she was doing. Of course, she did this in the nicest, politest way. The questions that she asked me were about the ways in which I was not conforming. That was her main curiousity. Like the rest of my family, she never knew about the things that I was the most interested in, and the things that we did share were not much fun for me.
An aspie who dresses plain (as all of the aspies who I know, male and female, usually do) is not totally comparable with an NT who has dyed hair and peircings. The NT chooses to go out of their way to make a fashion or cultural statement by deciding to wear all of their gear, while the aspie who has a plain and simple presentation is not necessarily making a choice or statement of any kind, they are just not interested in the whole fashion/class/subculture thing, and they are simply being themself.
I was recently browsing a list of upcoming books about AS. One title was about AS and sexuality. According to the blurb about the book it covered "gender identity disorders". I wondered in what way this kind of thing is relevant to AS. I also wondered if the whole idea of "gender identity disorder" is in some way wrong. Surely it is up to the individual to decide what their own identity is. I guess if other people disagree with or can't live with their opinion, then the person is judged by others to have a gender identity disorder. I will probably never get to read the book and find out what the author has to say, as our local library system gets few books about AS.
Thinking about the whole issue brought back memories of a bossy aunty of mine who gave me cosmetics as a gift and tried to do the makeover thing on me, and would ask me stuff like "Do you have a boyfriend yet?" Over the years I figured out that she didn't really want to get to know ME, she didn't want to help me to develop into the best person that I could be, her aim was to create me in the image of the neice that she had in her imagination, or at least nudge me in that direction as far I she could, and as a person she was so much of a phoney that she couldn't even see what she was doing. Of course, she did this in the nicest, politest way. The questions that she asked me were about the ways in which I was not conforming. That was her main curiousity. Like the rest of my family, she never knew about the things that I was the most interested in, and the things that we did share were not much fun for me.