Well, I don't know much about what symptoms mercury or other poisonings cause and I'm not very interested in it. But even when most people show a certain symptom that does not mean, every person shows symptoms the same way. We are all different and doses one person easily can endure, might cause a poisoning with another person having a different metabolism.
Only because some of us have had bad experiences with quack Drs., this does not mean any Dr. would try to press parents into unnessessary diagnostics or therapies. The psychologist where my son was dxed did not so and he only offered medical help when it was clear that the things did not improve as he thought they would after diagnosing my son and starting ergotherapie and psychotherapie. Maybe it would have been easier when the dx came earlier and my son was not at school at that time, but things are as they are.
And there are deseases who might cause autistic behavior, such as (sorry, I only know the german term) Pyrrolurie, which has a woman I know and since she is treated with Vitamin B and zinc the symptoms got better and only return when she really is stressed (she needs more supplements then). And because not all persons show all symptoms the same way, this might be misdiagnosed as well - and it is genetic, as far as I know. But on the other hand it might be, that Pyrrolurie is totally crap.
Remember: Anything might be true - but the opposite as well. So one should not rashly judge about something or someone. (by the way: that's one thing I often heard to be an NT trait :roll: , so beware not to be too NT :wink: )
Sibylle
I wouldn't trust anything written by Quackwatch. Stephen Barrett & his collegues are out to discredit the entire field of alternative medicine. If you read other articles you'll see this is true. He is counting on the fact that his 'M.D.' will inspire trust in a population already trusting of mainstream medicine and distrusting of alternative medicine.
That being said, IV chelation for children may be too dangerous and should only be given, if at all, in extreme cases. There is oral chelation. I'm not sure about it's safety for children, but it appears to be. I'm currently using oral chelation to get rid of heavy metal toxicity. What I'm taking has EDTA, chlorella, garlic, myrrh and serrapeptase. I'm also taking glutathione because mercury depletes the body of this. The chlorella pulls the metals out by means of the bowels rather than the kidneys in order to avoid damage to the kidneys. There is danger of the metals causing damage on the way out or of resettling and causing more damage as they do so but it doesn't seem good to have them stay in either. It's working for me and I had to get them out as they were causing health problems. I also had metals in my heart and brain which was scaring me. (Funny feeling in heart, heart skipping beats, brain fog, comprehension and memory problems.) If I had a child I'd research carefully. Metals can settle in organs, in bones, in the brain or almost anywhere else so if it were me I think I'd get the poison out and trust in the body's ability to heal itself (with a little help).
Whether or not mercury/metals CAUSE autism, I'm sure it's more complicated than that. Whether it contributes, I don't know. Mercury is a neurotoxin and the form of mercury in vaccines is a dangerous kind and childhood vaccines pump way higher levels into tiny children than would be safe even for an adult (amount in flu vaccine is safe for 500 pound person). Then there's mercury in pollution in the air. I'd like to see what the statistics say--they've now taken thimerosol out of vaccines. What are the rates between 1991 and 2003. (when the thimerosol levels in vaccines were highest and when it was taken out) If it shows a correlation, well, maybe, but you can't trust statistics really.
Pretty scary, huh? I've been having a 'funny' feeling in my heart for a while which I noticed at the same time I noticed the other symptoms of metal toxicity. Kind of like a slight feeling of heaviness or pressure. Then when I lie down sometimes I would hear a sound kind of like a motor, or a cat's purr only soft and then it would culminate in a kind of thud and it would feel like my heart was stopping for a second. After I detoxed most of the metals the feeling went away, including the feeling of pressure. That's how I connect it with the metals, and also a sense I have which I can't explain in one of the 5 senses which is kind of like the taste of metal(s) combined with the sound of static and something else which I can't describe but which the metal gives me. Weird.
You're right, I shouldn't just assume the metals are the reason. But the feeling is gone now. If it reappears I'll check it out further. I had the same feeling, though, when the metals were coming out of my head, only weirder--static, pressure, and bizarre sensations which I can't explain (besides headaches) :fear: as well as flares of irritation and rages alternating with fatigue. I was having extreme problems of forgetfulness, like early stages of Alzheimers before I got them out, now my memory is almost back to what it was before (which was never very good but I'm glad to have it back).
I wouldn't make such a broad brushstroke comment about the entire field of alternative medicine. Otherwise you'll have to do the same thing with allopathic medicine and Vioxx. You trust allopathic medicine, the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA even though they knew that Vioxx was killing people yet you don't trust alternative medicine because of one doctor, or whatever he is? You say that everything on Stephen Barrett's site is verifyable, yet you don't say you've actually verified anything.
I also wouldn't make such a broad statement because you may need alternative medicine when allopathic medicine fails you as it did me when I was very sick from systemic candida. 'Here, take this drug' is a statement that you should always question. And it will be allopathic doctors, not alternative doctors, who one day cut open the heads of autistics in the name of medicine. Trust me, you want to verify everything your regular doctor says as well.
And it will be allopathic doctors, not alternative doctors, who one day cut open the heads of autistics in the name of medicine.
I like how you pull pseudofacts out of your ***. Seriously, where did you get an idea like that?
I signed the petition, but I want to withdraw my signature. Is that possible? A call for an outright ban simply won't work, and I don't want my name on this petition if you actually send it.
Well, I actually pulled this out of my head, but as neither facts nor pseudofacts, just speculation and as a means to draw attention to the fact that there should be more fear of allopathic doctors (who have the power, the trust and the knives to do something like this) than alternative doctors. But I ask, do you really think that that won't someday (soon) happen?
I wouldn't make such a broad brushstroke comment about the entire field of alternative medicine. Otherwise you'll have to do the same thing with allopathic medicine and Vioxx. You trust allopathic medicine, the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA even though they knew that Vioxx was killing people yet you don't trust alternative medicine because of one doctor, or whatever he is? You say that everything on Stephen Barrett's site is verifyable, yet you don't say you've actually verified anything.
I also wouldn't make such a broad statement because you may need alternative medicine when allopathic medicine fails you as it did me when I was very sick from systemic candida. 'Here, take this drug' is a statement that you should always question. And it will be allopathic doctors, not alternative doctors, who one day cut open the heads of autistics in the name of medicine. Trust me, you want to verify everything your regular doctor says as well.
Where did you get the idea I trusted all that from?
I said I trusted all that was verifiable. So far everything I've had occassion to look at or quote on Quackwatch is 100% accurate as its 100% verifiable.
Thank you for your view, Lili. I am newly (self) diagnosed so I don't know much about alternative medicine in regards to autism. I see a lot of people here have a negative view about it especially in respects to children. I think some of it may be due to their trying to cure it, whereas regular doctors give drugs to help with some difficulties--please correct me if I'm wrong or if that's too simplistic. I discern that Kev is trying his best for his child and has a lot of emotions involved so I don't want to offend him. All I know is that I've had poor health my whole life and started to have real problems when I hit 35. (I'm 41.) I self-diagnosed Candida due to the questionnaire that Stephen Bennett scoffs at. Some doctors looked at me condescendingly when I said I knew I had Candida, others knew nothing about it and were asking me questions to learn about it! So I tried to help myself and only made a little progress. I became very sick when it moved from my intestines throughout my body. An alternative doctor cured it and also found that I was a mess--hormone imbalances, endocrine imbalances (thyroid, adrenal, pituitary mostly), immune system worn out, malnutrition, metals. I believe that to some degree (don't know how much) my health problems are tied up with the autism at least because I had a gene test and it was noted that I have a problem with detoxing. Also my nutrient level was so low and took longer than average to raise. Other problems like my pituitary is low functioning and possibly others, I don't know, lead me to believe that it's autism-related. But a lot of NTs get sick as they get older so it may just be a coincidence. The point is, I needed alternative medicine to bring my health up to the level it is now, which is the best it has ever been (I'll never have great health). I just wanted to say that because it's possible that as some of you get older(don't know anyone's ages but I know some are still young) may need this resource. (I also see huge problems with mainstream medicine and pharmaceutical companies involving greed and a limited system and know a lot of cases where doctors could cure someone but prefer to treat them because it means income, but I won't get into that.) Only trying to help where I thought I could.
I'm doing much better now. My immune system has been built up, my intestinal problems have been cleared up and I am no longer malnourished. I'm doing better in many respects than as a child when I got sick all the time, had adrenal problems, hypoglycemia, undernourished. Now I know how to take good care of myself as well. I also found out that my stomach doesn't produce enough hydrochloric acid which helps break down food so that your intestines can absorb the vitamins and especially minerals. So I take a HCL supplement. I take antioxidants for the oxidative/detox problems. I can take wheat again now but limit it. Wheat has also changed over the years due to hybrids being produced to make it less susceptible to pests & disease and easier to grow. A lot of people are sensitive to the increased gluten in wheat because of those changes. Western medicine doesn't traditionally heal, it treats or only treats symptoms with drugs. Drugs do not heal and have side effects of their own. Sometimes drugs are needed but are not good for long term maintenance unless your sickness or health is too far along for natural remedies or natural remedies alone. If you look around the world where the Western system does not prevail you see more healing and helping the body to heal itself. Folk medicine in this country used to be that way but it has been overtaken and has all but disappeared. A lot of intestinal problems people have are caused by antibiotics screwing up the natural flora, poor eating habits, 'fake' and processed foods and toxins. I don't do wacko new-age or extreme things, just nutrition and natural remedies. It has worked for me.
I've been able to find fault with information given out by Quackwatch without any effort at all. I once read advice on Quackwatch that no one needs mineral supplements in their diet. This isn't true.
Can you show me where Lili?
http://www.quackwatch.org/search/webglim...upplements
Has anyone explored the idea that some autistics are more sensitive to mercury and that's why they show more in their system, but not that it's the cause of autism? I couldn't find anything on this, but I didn't do an intensive search.
I have a problem with detoxification, a genetic problem. Whether or not it's connected to my autism, I don't know. But I am very chemically sensitive and have to be careful. I first noticed a significant dip in my health after getting a 'silver' (50% mercury) filling out and several years of flu shots. The symptoms listed for mercury poisioning do not match symptoms of autism. I have symptoms of both and only had the symptoms of mercury poisoning after I got the filling out. I am either all or almost metal-free (I have no proof the metal is mercury, just that it is metal(s), possibly mercury or a combination). I also have no proof where the metals came from, they may have been there before the filling was taken out or slowly growing over the years, who knows. The average person or maybe the very healthy person can possibly detox the metals, whereas others can't. I have another test to do to see if I am metal-free. But I am still me, I just feel better. I know I'm old :wink and not young enough to see if taking the metals 'cured' me but I don't see why this hypothesis--metals are there because of sensitivity or problems detoxing--cannot be added to the list (unless it's already there). Especially since NTs have a problem understanding autism--they may confuse signs of metals with autism and just tack it on. I couldn't recognize myself in their description of autism (blind men touching the elephant), I had to hear it from other autistics.
It's always bugged me how they can come to a conclusion based solely on what information is discerned. How arrogant and short-sighted. What about what is not discerned or understood? The brain, genes are hugely complex and we haven't even touched the surface of all there is to know. If someone gets e-coli after eating at a buffet, it would appear that's where they got it, but what about the swim in the public pool the person took before they ate at the buffet that no one knows about and the person with e-coli didn't think was connected so didn't tell anyone? Good detectives are careful not to be blinded by circumstantial evidence, so why not good scientists or doctors?
My example of the e-coli was just an illustration. I don't care about e-coli or specifically whether or not it's in food or water, I was just using it to illustrate that people look in the wrong direction for things sometimes and assume things without proof. I use my experience as an example of a person with a problem detoxing (yes, my test was credible, yes I did have heavy metal toxicity) as another example of why an autistic may have high levels of metals if they also have that problem--they are looking at a genetic connection there with the part of a gene that is responsible for detoxification. (And I'm not totally against conventional medicine but so many completely put their trust in it and completely discredit alternative medicine that I want to present the other side.)
There's no such thing as a 'control' group because you can't completely separate people from unknown factors that may affect a test. You can say that for both sides. I'm trying to be unbiased because once you adopt a stand or opinion about something you can often only see your side. I'm trying to understand things without bias, which is actually almost impossible because humans always have some type of bias. We will be biased because we are autistic, the NTs will be biased because they are NTs. For example, if the 'cure' side says that autistic children are found to have more mercury in their systems, where did they get that info? Did they test what they thought was a cross-section but really it was only a section of autistic children who came to them because of symptoms of mercury or whose parents brought them because they wanted to 'cure' them? I mean, I really don't know, but since a heavy metals test is not part of a standard blood test at the doctors, and autistics and parents who are against the idea that it's mercury, they would not be likely to submit themselves or their children to a test.
My point here is, why assume that mercury is a cause of autism when it could simply be present in some autistic kids. Shoot, it's present in NT kids too but they're saying it's present in autistic kids more than in NT kids. I don't trust the test that determined it, but if it's true, I don't want them to assume it's the cause of autism, just like that.
Also, I see a need for moderators to bring the sides together. Living so long in the NT world, thinking I was just different, I've learned to see things from their side somewhat. If they see us in negative ways, well, they are in the majority so they have the power and that's not good. I'd like to work towards them seeing us in positive ways. If that's even possible... (I really hate when supposedly understanding NTs come out with things that show they really don't understand.)
Your point about the control group vs the treatment group is well taken, but if a drug is being tested for a group, say, isn't it better to have a complete cross-section of people? If people self-select what effect will that have on the overall test?
If autistics self-select to be part of a test to compare them to non-autistics who is being tested? A true cross section?
It is my understanding that with metals, if they are being stored by the body in the organs or bones, doctors will have to to invasive tests such as a biopsy on the liver to see if metals are in the liver cells. They are hesitant to do a test like this if they don't see metals in the urine or blood. The body tries to store metals so that it can get them out of circulation and not do damage. Sometimes they are stored in fat or water (people often gain weight or water weight due to this and I was having water retention and lost weight after the metals left) as the least harmful way for the body to deal with them but often they end up in organs and other places where they can do harm over time. I'm not sure which tend to store where or if there is a pattern for each metal or if each person's body is different in the way they handle it (actually I may have researched that but forgot it--this bad memory! :mad: ) But the only way metals would be in the urine is if you are currently detoxing the metals or if they are being released from the cells. The same thing with a hair test--it will only measure what is circulating in the body. When my nutritionist/naturopath who got rid of my candida/parasites and was helping me build up my immune system and restore balance to endocrine system, hormones and built back up my nutrionally depleted body, gave me a gene test it was found I have an error in a gene for detoxification so he gave me antioxidants. Before he gave me the gene test, he was testing my urine for free radicals (actually I was doing the test at home, myself) and the level of free radicals continued to stay up which concerned him. After a while of taking the antioxidants and the level of free radicals not going down, he doubled the antioxidants and I had a big detox effect as some toxin was being released by the antioxidants (one of which was able to cross the blood-brain barrier). He said he's seen where this could be metals, when the free radical level will just not go down. He sent me a urine test which I took (could not just walk into a doctor's office at this point and ask for a metals test, they wouldn't do it). It showed Cadmium in the 1st titration and a mixture of others in the 4th titration which is the lowest concentration. Cadmium is near Mercury on the test so I personally left it open as to which metals I actually had, though the test mainly did show cadmium. The minor levels of other metals were too small to determine. He gave me an oral chelator and the next month when I took the free radical test the number went way down, the next month, same thing. I also had the symptoms of detox which matched descriptions of metal detoxing as well as the health problems before the detox--the main one which concerned me was problems with cognition and memory which began to show up after I had the filling taken out. Now that the metals test shows negative my cognition and memory are coming back
I don't know if this is quite related but I get rather suspicious of all these articles in women's magazines that claim things such as cellulite being caused by "toxins" in the body. This is rubbish!. Cellulite is caused because it is natural for women in particular to have fat laid down in a honeycomb pattern on their buttocks and thighs in particular.
The bigger they are, the more cellulite. Sure you can get rid of some of it by losing weight and maybe even having liposuction but the fact remains that most women have some cellulite - therefore it is normal.
If there were all these "toxins", the fat cells would become infected and cause all sorts of problems.
I agree that candida is often caused by antibiotics altering the flora of the bowel and that we rely too much on antibiotics to deal with viral conditions (antibiotics will only work on bacterial diseases). We also get antibiotics in chicken and other meats because the animals are fed antibiotics to make them grow faster.
There has been a lot of controversy about amalgam fillings, but the fact remains that most people who have them don't have any problems. If they were so unsafe, they wouldn't be used anymore (or so one would think)
What I object to with the chelation treatment and other invasive treatments for young children is there is no proof that they "cure" autism. I think it is quite unethical to subject people to treatments without their consent if they are invasive and could have bad side-effects. Children are not in the position to give informed consent.