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Well, the title should be self-evident. This isn't NT Bashing, this is just a concern of mine.

Let me give you examples, transparent, and impartial examples. I have no self-interest in this, well indirect self-interest, but it is not meant that way.

In school, teachers insist that certain headers and footers are placed n x spots on the paper, the paper is to be double-spaced and so on.

In job interviews, you have to dress in suits and ties and then Mcdonalds spends tremoundous amounts of money on the packaging.

NTs often believe dramatism in movies, tv shows and advirtisements whereas aspies will not be blinded by the man behind the curtain. Why are NTs blinded by the man behind the curtain?
This is such an irony, isn't it?

Somebody must have set the precedent once upon a time whatever it may be (clothing trend, the way something is said, etc.).

In theory, whoever set the trend could very well be an Aspie.  Whatever it is that is original and unique; others embraced it, followed the trend, and therefore it not only became acceptable; it became standard.

Whoever set the trend:  Was this person a "credible" Aspie?  (Meaning others respected him enough to follow suit.)  Or was this somebody with "NT license".

Now let's apply the "NT license" theory to the classroom.  Little "Aspie Johnny" is stugging in his first grade class and clashes with the teacher. He has a fits about mundane things such as trying to do his addition and subtraction problems in a way he's comfortable with.  His fussiness extends to other activities as well such as classroom games. The teacher is always looking over his shoulder and scolding him for not following directions and sloppy penmanship.

Now the teacher demands a certain format for homework assignments.  Meaning the answers have to be numbered in Arabic and properly punctuated before the actual answer is written.  The homework has to be turned in on yellow-ruled paper.  If such demands aren't met, points are deducted.  "Aspie Johnny" loses his yellow-ruled paper; so he has to use white paper to turn in his homework assignment on time.  He would otherwise have an excellent grade but loses a signigicant amount of points for passing the assignment on white paper.  Then his parents scold him at home for not doing things the "teacher's way".  At the same time, he's used to being perpetually scolded for having to have things "his way" whatever they may be.

Will not "Aspie Johnny" see some hypocracy through all of this.  Why is it perfectly OK for the teacher to seemingly have things "her way"?  But when he tries to have things "his way" (implying that whatever they are, they are mundane things), he gets in trouble.

jiggeryqua

Well, in the case of the teacher and pupil, do you really have to ask what it is in that set-up that assumes one figure has some authority over the other?  Let's instead imagine it's two adults - and not one who is an executive or manager in a business and the other who is employed by the business (and certainly not an officer and an entry level rank in an armed service...or a judge and the accused...or a police officer and a civilian...and so on).

In fact, the only reason for one adult to have it done their way, over your way, would be in a situation where their authority is deemed necessary, considered useful, observably advisable or just a de facto truth.  The other option is anarchy - as it happens, I'm an anarchist, but it entails a little more than 'everyone doing whatever they want'...you have to have authority over yourself.  There aren't many situations where questioning everything is of any value - in most, it will negatively impact far more people than your accepting the conventions will impact you.  How many people it takes to outweigh your self-interest will vary between individuals...

Bozewani Wrote:
In school, teachers insist that certain headers and footers are placed n x spots on the paper, the paper is to be double-spaced and so on.


That's just professionalism - makes the text easier to read and so on.

For example,if I don't use spaces around punctuation,it becomes a lot harder to read what I'm saying-which I'm sure you can see getting annoying in short order.


Quote:
NTs often believe dramatism in movies, tv shows and advirtisements whereas aspies will not be blinded by the man behind the curtain. Why are NTs blinded by the man behind the curtain?


Suspension of disbelief. Look it up.

jiggeryqua

Pikajedi3 Wrote:
Suspension of disbelief. Look it up.


The thing on which all theatre hangs, and by extension movies, TV and advertising.  They don't believe any of it (well, maybe some of the advertising for some of the people, some of the time).  But tell people they're an audience, or invite them to choose to be, and they will readily suspend their disbelief.  As people have become more familiar with SFX in film and TV, they have become less willing to work at suspending their disbelief (generally speaking, though there are still audiences for straight drama in real theatres).  This drives the development of 'realistic' FX with a consequent reduction in plot, character development etc.  "But why is he flying level through a collapsing city when he should be climbing steeply?"..."Who cares?  Did you see that subway train shoot over the plane?"

Bozewani Wrote:
In school, teachers insist that certain headers and footers are placed n x spots on the paper, the paper is to be double-spaced and so on.

In job interviews, you have to dress in suits and ties and then Mcdonalds spends tremoundous amounts of money on the packaging.


Interestingly, I tend to be a real stickler about spelling, grammar, and punctuation, but at the same time I strongly believe that personal appearance shouldn't matter and resent the emphasis placed on it by society.  The latter is probably in large part do to sensory issues, since the standard of appropriate dress of men in a lot of situations are in direct conflict with what I find bearable.  However, I've also seen it written that lack of body image is a trait assosicated with being on the spectrum.

Shoneh Wrote:

Bozewani Wrote:
In school, teachers insist that certain headers and footers are placed n x spots on the paper, the paper is to be double-spaced and so on.

In job interviews, you have to dress in suits and ties and then Mcdonalds spends tremoundous amounts of money on the packaging.


Interestingly, I tend to be a real stickler about spelling, grammar, and punctuation, but at the same time I strongly believe that personal appearance shouldn't matter and resent the emphasis placed on it by society.  The latter is probably in large part do to sensory issues, since the standard of appropriate dress of men in a lot of situations are in direct conflict with what I find bearable.  However, I've also seen it written that lack of body image is a trait assosicated with being on the spectrum.


Correct spelling, punctuation and grammar for official communications (as in business and government).  In the elementary school setting as well as the higher grades, this should be emphasized.  In college, it might depend on the situation.  I mean the relevance of the spelling, punctuation and grammar relative to the purpose of the subject matter.  If it is a written exam or a typed assignment; without ample margin of time for editing; mispellings and type-os are often excusable or they are overlooked.  What's important is the central idea of what was learned is being demonstrated.  If it is something such as a thesis, this is a more formal paper, and it should be expected that it will be carefully edited before it is submitted.  Hence, this is an example as to why in the early grades, there should be important emphasis on spelling and grammar so that good spelling and grammer skills in the prevailing language (English in the United States) come very natural.

This post is an example of something that likely has spelling and grammar errors since I type in in a hurry rather and don't carefully edit it before posting.

About dressing, that is very important in certain situations; especially sales and marketing.  I am of the opinion that Aspies are not a natural fit for such professions.  The owner of a car dealership is going to want his sales people to look very impressive.  He does not want to lose potential sales because potential customers see the car salesman as nerdy.  Also in trying to sell something; especially big ticket items; social skills and especially the ability to influence and persuade people are ever more important.  The Aspie profile would not fit the bill for such positions.

Bozewani Wrote:
Well, the title should be self-evident. This isn't NT Bashing, this is just a concern of mine.

Let me give you examples, transparent, and impartial examples. I have no self-interest in this, well indirect self-interest, but it is not meant that way.

In school, teachers insist that certain headers and footers are placed n x spots on the paper, the paper is to be double-spaced and so on.

In job interviews, you have to dress in suits and ties and then Mcdonalds spends tremoundous amounts of money on the packaging.

NTs often believe dramatism in movies, tv shows and advirtisements whereas aspies will not be blinded by the man behind the curtain. Why are NTs blinded by the man behind the curtain?

More correctly it is societies obsession with presentation. I know many aspies who are absolutely pedantic about presentation on all sorts of matters.

If someone turns up for an interview looking like something the cat dragged in for lunch no way anyone would give you a job aspie or not. Really bad dressing is associated with druggies, bums and so on. That is just how it is and always has been.

The fact is each ocuppation is associated with a particular style of dress. So someone who doesn't is perceived not to be part of that profession. Like, would you believe someone is a policeman if they wore rags and had a mouthful of jewellery (well they could very well be, undercover!!).

this reminds me of when i was about five years old. I was a very fair, honest person, but i always wanted to do things my way, no matter what. which sounds kind of ironic. One day in my kindergarden class, i walked up to my teacher with a lot of frustration and stubbornness inside of me. Her name was Mrs. Morrow.
"Mrs. Morrow.." I said to her, with eye contact. "I don't like your RULES." I shouted. I felt so uptight and confused about following what everyone else did in the class. I got into some BIG trouble after i said that. I always felt like she secretly despised me, hahahah!
This was nothing new. My parents called my rebellion "The Emma Way" (that's my name). I was a problem child. I still haven't lost that stubbornness, but i have matured, of course.
At school they tried every way to get me to comply with the rules. I never really did. I just did my own thing and accepted the punishment. Only thing is they were always puzzled by my ability to ace exams with little to no effort and with a total refusal to do homework. School, boring, pointless and meaningless. Nothing I couldn't pick up in a few minutes if I so wished.

kevout2 Wrote:
I am of the opinion that Aspies are not a natural fit for such professions.


Probably true, although there may be some people on the spectrum who could be successful in such jobs, even if most would not.

kevout2 Wrote:
The owner of a car dealership is going to want his sales people to look very impressive.  He does not want to lose potential sales because potential customers see the car salesman as nerdy.


That may be true, but you could just as easily say that an employer would not want to hire racial minorities because the customers might be racist.  It wouldn't surprise me if someone actually made that argument back when nondiscrimination laws were first being passed.  Ultimately, these prejudices need to be transcended, not appeased.  If the applicant is the most qualified person for the job, they deserve to be hired, plain and simple.

Shoneh Wrote:

kevout2 Wrote:
I am of the opinion that Aspies are not a natural fit for such professions.


Probably true, although there may be some people on the spectrum who could be successful in such jobs, even if most would not.

kevout2 Wrote:
The owner of a car dealership is going to want his sales people to look very impressive.  He does not want to lose potential sales because potential customers see the car salesman as nerdy.


That may be true, but you could just as easily say that an employer would not want to hire racial minorities because the customers might be racist.  It wouldn't surprise me if someone actually made that argument back when nondiscrimination laws were first being passed.  Ultimately, these prejudices need to be transcended, not appeased.  If the applicant is the most qualified person for the job, they deserve to be hired, plain and simple.


I very much agree with your responses.  Regarding #1, I really meant to convey that MOST Aspies aren't suited for such professions; NOT ALL Aspies.  There are variations and exceptions in every group.

Regarding #2, I'm sure you're right about that.  The difference is that today there are civil rights laws and discrimination laws prohibiting racism.  Rgarding discrimination against Aspies, there is yet to be a term established to define shuch a phobia/hatred never mind specific laws aimed at protecting Aspie civil rights.  Might this be called "neurotypism"?

micgrace Wrote:
At school they tried every way to get me to comply with the rules. I never really did. I just did my own thing and accepted the punishment. Only thing is they were always puzzled by my ability to ace exams with little to no effort and with a total refusal to do homework. School, boring, pointless and meaningless. Nothing I couldn't pick up in a few minutes if I so wished.

Yeah, I was like that in the early years of primary school. I never did much homework except for assignments and essays and even those were often done at the very last moment. Paradoxically, I found the more time and effort I put into something, the poorer the marks I got, so there was little incentive to rewrite several times.

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