I was in a shop today and when I was getting served at the counter, and the woman who was serving said something to me - I didn't hear her, so I just looked at her blankly trying to work out what she'd said (as I do), when the other women behind the counter looked at each other and said 'ohhhhh', as if I'd just done something terrible. Apparently, I had given her the dirtiest look they'd ever seen?!
I'm always getting accused of this and it causes people to think that I am arrogant and nasty, which is completely untrue. As an Aspie, it is difficult enough for me to interact with people without this as well.
Do you get this too? What can I do about it?
Yeah, this is a total pain. There is a whole intricate series of muscular changes you have to do in your face in order to not scare NTs when you are in public. It's vestigial. They still having an amygdal fear response that a stranger is going to hurt them. Basically you cannot have your own facial expression when you are interracting with others, you imitate them, then they imitate you depending on who is speaking. Since it's an instinctual neurology, if you're not hooked up, you won't be able to do it. So we have to, as Alison says, "plaster a smile on your face" when you are interracting with others in public. I haven't found any way around it. But, yes, it's just another form of culturally-enforced lying. But they actually have special neurons that do this automatically for them, so we can't really blame them for this one.
Interesting, seeing as I have a Amygadal fear response, whenever I hear a sudden loud noise. I hate that I can't keep from glaring at the person, usually a small child, when I hear a loud noise and it triggers a fight or flight reaction. I then have to be fearful that the parent will lash out at me, for frightening their child. This all could be avoided if parents realized not everyone can tolerate the loud noises small children make. That while everyone wants to idealize them as little angels, the reality is they're human beings, and may behave badly once in awhile.
I guess I should stop as I'm going on a rant, I just find interesting how we're supposed to make sure all the time, we don't upset NTs. Yet if we even suggest to an NT, something they or their angel does is upsetting us, we have to accept being lashed out at.
Interesting, seeing as I have a Amygadal fear response, whenever I hear a sudden loud noise. I hate that I can't keep from glaring at the person, usually a small child, when I hear a loud noise and it triggers a fight or flight reaction. I then have to be fearful that the parent will lash out at me, for frightening their child. This all could be avoided if parents realized not everyone can tolerate the loud noises small children make. That while everyone wants to idealize them as little angels, the reality is they're human beings, and may behave badly once in awhile.
I guess I should stop as I'm going on a rant, I just find interesting how we're supposed to make sure all the time, we don't upset NTs. Yet if we even suggest to an NT, something they or their angel does is upsetting us, we have to accept being lashed out at.
No, V-Y, OP is not discussing people lashing out. You are discussing an entirely different question, and that is the expression of aggression in public. OP was talking about their neutral expression looking like dissapproval, not aggression.
To address your issue, both NTs and Aspies need to learn how to handle their amygdal response of public aggression when they have amygdal fear. We shouldn't try to train NTs to accept our amygdal fear response towards them for loud stimuli any more than we should accept theirs towards us when it is in the form of fear of nonconformity. Yes, you do inflict harm when you direct aggression towards a child for making a loud noise before they are at the developmental age to control themselves (as opposed to a child behaving below their developmental age for manipulation).
It is perfectly easy to teach a child what an amygdal response is and how to handle it. We were taught to differentiate between amygdal and conscious fear in school and how to contain the outer expression starting in fourth grade. I think it's ridiculous not to have this as part of the regular curriculum in schools. NTs need it as much as Aspies.
Yeah, this is a total pain. There is a whole intricate series of muscular changes you have to do in your face in order to not scare NTs when you are in public. It's vestigial. They still having an amygdal fear response that a stranger is going to hurt them. Basically you cannot have your own facial expression when you are interracting with others, you imitate them, then they imitate you depending on who is speaking. Since it's an instinctual neurology, if you're not hooked up, you won't be able to do it. So we have to, as Alison says, "plaster a smile on your face" when you are interracting with others in public. I haven't found any way around it. But, yes, it's just another form of culturally-enforced lying. But they actually have special neurons that do this automatically for them, so we can't really blame them for this one.
Thanks for your reply; you detailed both the problem and the solution. I do try to put on an act whilst interacting with NTs but it can be difficult at times, especially when I am unprepared.
For me its not a "mad look" but a "sad look". People always say "are you alright? you look upset." I'm only processing what they have just said. I don't know,yet, how I feel about what they said, so I can't be reacting to it with a "sad" look. To cover it I always say "oh, I was just thinking", only now the conversation has veered off onto what my face looked like and I've lost what I was processing originally. Highly annoying!
As others have already said, I have managed to "hardwire" a physical script for myself when I'm interacting with the public. That of a benign, non-threatening face with a ready smile. It never hurt that my last name is actually "Smiley", so people have always tended to think my smile is genetic or something <vbg>. That basic script is backed up by a subscript of raising my eyebrows quizically, tilting my head ever so slightly, redirecting my focus right to the person and replying something along the lines of "Sorry? I missed that . . ." to give me the needed few seconds time to process what they said/did and what is the correct expected/accepted response. They usually think I'm a little bit distracted, but not in an unfriendly way.
Don't stress about it. I guarantee the people you encounter will be thinking about something completely different in a couple of minutes time. While we're the ones who worry about it and wonder if we've done something wrong into the future! My mantra is: "Don't worry about what other people think. They don't do it very often."
Alison
My mantra is: "Don't worry about what other people think. They don't do it very often."
Alison
Love that, Alison!
Don't stress about it. I guarantee the people you encounter will be thinking about something completely different in a couple of minutes time. While we're the ones who worry about it and wonder if we've done something wrong into the future! My mantra is: "Don't worry about what other people think. They don't do it very often."
Alison
I like you're way of thinking very much. It's similar to mine; at least on this matter.
People are far too judgemental, and they always assume things without considering the possibility of their incorrectness. Does it ultimately matter what anyone thinks anyway? Nobody will remember what you've done or how you acted in due time unless you're somebody like Jim Morrison or something.
Yes it does happen to me a lot though, but I generally try not to care. Sometimes, so as to keep a good impression if it's in my interest, I'll try and explain what the "dirty look" really was.
Interesting, seeing as I have a Amygadal fear response, whenever I hear a sudden loud noise. I hate that I can't keep from glaring at the person, usually a small child, when I hear a loud noise and it triggers a fight or flight reaction. I then have to be fearful that the parent will lash out at me, for frightening their child. This all could be avoided if parents realized not everyone can tolerate the loud noises small children make. That while everyone wants to idealize them as little angels, the reality is they're human beings, and may behave badly once in awhile.
I guess I should stop as I'm going on a rant, I just find interesting how we're supposed to make sure all the time, we don't upset NTs. Yet if we even suggest to an NT, something they or their angel does is upsetting us, we have to accept being lashed out at.
No, V-Y, OP is not discussing people lashing out. You are discussing an entirely different question, and that is the expression of aggression in public. OP was talking about their neutral expression looking like dissapproval, not aggression.
To address your issue, both NTs and Aspies need to learn how to handle their amygdal response of public aggression when they have amygdal fear. We shouldn't try to train NTs to accept our amygdal fear response towards them for loud stimuli any more than we should accept theirs towards us when it is in the form of fear of nonconformity. Yes, you do inflict harm when you direct aggression towards a child for making a loud noise before they are at the developmental age to control themselves (as opposed to a child behaving below their developmental age for manipulation).
It is perfectly easy to teach a child what an amygdal response is and how to handle it. We were taught to differentiate between amygdal and conscious fear in school and how to contain the outer expression starting in fourth grade. I think it's ridiculous not to have this as part of the regular curriculum in schools. NTs need it as much as Aspies.
*sigh* I wasn't meaning to "lash out". I wish my condition wasn't such a burden to others. I can't change it.
I have been accused of this alot. I really do not understand why people would think that.
Unfortuantely I haven't learnt a way to prevent the accusations but I feel such as though I'm an awful person when perhaps it just happens that I can't really control.
I do not know what it is but it's nice to know that one isn't alone with these sort of situations.
I don't understand why people would think this either, it's cruel. They must not know how it feels to cry, because you have a condition that seems to upset others. That there's no way to fix it, and that few if any people understand.
Then to have it suggested that you intend to hurt others, that you're basically using your condition as an excuse for agression? I've gotten enough of this *blank* from people about this all my life. That something must be wrong with me, I must HATE children, or I'm some kind of monster. If I could change this I would, and no, wearing earplugs 24/7 does not help. It makes ears more sensitive, and that causes even more meltdowns.
I've been told it's even wrong of me to let others known about my condition, and that I should learn how to suffer. Most of the time I'm the one lashed out at, for daring to suggest that someone's small child's sounds might cause me discomfort. I've been lashed out at, for posing an inconvenience to others by simply asking that loud people try and quiet it down a little.
I've gotten some understanding here from other people, but this is completely insensitive and as I said cruel, to suggest someone goes out of their way to hurt others because they can't learn to hide their suffering well.
All it takes is for someone to understand and perhaps move their kids elsewhere, or to understand I'm not trying to be mean. That's just so much to ask, and apparently wrong to do.
Interesting, seeing as I have a Amygadal fear response, whenever I hear a sudden loud noise. I hate that I can't keep from glaring at the person, usually a small child, when I hear a loud noise and it triggers a fight or flight reaction. I then have to be fearful that the parent will lash out at me, for frightening their child.
This all could be avoided if parents realized not everyone can tolerate the loud noises small children make. That while everyone wants to idealize them as little angels, the reality is they're human beings, and may behave badly once in awhile.
I guess I should stop as I'm going on a rant, I just find interesting how we're supposed to make sure all the time, we don't upset NTs. Yet if we even suggest to an NT, something they or their angel does is upsetting us, we have to accept being lashed out at.
No, V-Y, OP is not discussing people lashing out. You are discussing an entirely different question, and that is the expression of aggression in public. OP was talking about their neutral expression looking like dissapproval, not aggression.
To address your issue, both NTs and Aspies need to learn how to handle their amygdal response of public aggression when they have amygdal fear. We shouldn't try to train NTs to accept our amygdal fear response towards them for loud stimuli any more than we should accept theirs towards us when it is in the form of fear of nonconformity.
Yes, you do inflict harm when you direct aggression towards a child for making a loud noise before they are at the developmental age to control themselves (as opposed to a child behaving below their developmental age for manipulation).
It is perfectly easy to teach a child what an amygdal response is and how to handle it. We were taught to differentiate between amygdal and conscious fear in school and how to contain the outer expression starting in fourth grade. I think it's ridiculous not to have this as part of the regular curriculum in schools. NTs need it as much as Aspies.
*sigh* I wasn't meaning to "lash out". I wish my condition wasn't such a burden to others. I can't change it.
Ah, I get much the same reaction as violet_yoshi and certainly don't believe I am a monster. It is impossible for me to plaster on a smile (and why would I want to anyway if I feel cr@ppy at the time?) and the panic reaction to some loud sounds is so fast it happens before I even have time to think about it.
Yes, it is true that really tiny children don't have good control over themselves but I also think that tantrums and bad behaviour are more tolerated these days. Parents often fear getting reported for child abuse if they even raise their voice to their children so the kids get away with things we probably wouldn't have when we were children.
I often get nervous in shops and if a child screams it feels like somebody is stabbing me in the ear with a sharp knife. I also see the sound in colour (synaesthaesia) and it is like a bilious yellow/mustard so it is an assault on more than one sense at a time.
I don't know if NTs get the same reaction - one thing I do know is that I can't just block out such sounds or rationalise them away like others seem to think I should do.
It is not a case that such things can be stopped because little kids are only thinking of what they want but surely the parents can take them out of the shop or wherever if they are making a big fuss. It is only considerate of the others who wish to shop or dine or watch a show or listen to the sermon in church.