Aspies For Freedom

Greetings,

If youre in the UK you will be aware of the double tick logo that appears on some job vacancies - which basically means if you have a disablity then you are garunteed an interview.

But is that all it is - just a token gesture with no real meaning?  There really is no way to prove or disprove that from what I can see.

The problem with alot of jobs is that they demand 'commercial experience' - wher enoone cares what talents you might have or what experience you might have outside of the 'commercial' environment.

DISABILITY IS ALSO A BARRIER TO THIS

I'm a bit disillusioned at the moment since I just got knocked back for a job after giving a pretty good interview - and I feel it was purely down to that.

The whole scheme is probably just a way for them to look good and positive and all that crap

Do you have to tell them what the disability is at the interview?   Obviously, if someone shows up in a wheelchair, that is a good clue to maybe one of the disabilities.  

I used to tell people that I was hard-of-hearing to make sure they were looking at me when they talked and that they made sure that I understood what they were saying.  That worked well except for the woman interviewing me who turned her back and then said "you heard what I said.  How can you be deaf?"   So maybe I was not deaf enough for her liking.  I did end up getting my hearing tested and found out it is in normal limits.  I do have a tendency to tune out sometimes so I think I have a listening problem more than a hearing problem.

If I do indicate that I have a disability on an application, I do not like to disclose what exactly is the disability in the interview.  I just say that I do not wish to disclose it because I do not want to be discriminated against.  It only matters if the disability will require special adaptions to the job description or workplace.  Any adaptions required for someone with AS are certainly more inexpensive than for someone with an physical disability such as wheelchair (ramps, elevators), deafness (special phone), blindness (large print programs).  All you might need to be accomodated is for the supervisor to give clear written instructions, maybe a bit tailored training and make other employees stop bullying.  It does seem that asking for that is so cheap compared to physical disabilities.  With that reasoning people with AS should have higher employment rates than people with physical disabilities.  I do not have the statistics.

In terms of needing "commercial job experience" as opposed to volunteer work experience or lengthy education, that is the plague of all unemployed people.  Of course, the most valuable new employee might be someone who has been stolen from their competitors until he/she walks off the next highest bidder with more experience.  You might have to highlight your qualities that can not be aquired through any job experience:  loyality, resourcefullness, punctuality,  logical thinking etc.   Some people get a first job through friends or relatives.  
Does an employer  value their references (usually not knowing it is from a relative unless told so) more than a reference from a volunteer organization?  

Interviewing and maybe even hiring people with disabilities mostly is for show.  In fact, many interviews of just regular NT people is just for show as well.  I have had many interviews where there is no job available (unknown to me, it was just spying), a candidate was already picked but they had to interview 20 people anyway,  they wanted to hire someone from another country but had to interview to tell immigration that no one in the country was qualitifed for the job, they decided to use a temporary agency, they wanted to hire manager's relative, etc, etc.  

You might ask the interviewer why they did not hire you (by phone or letter).  Sometimes they will help you and be honest.  They might also ask for permission to pass on your resume to others who might be interested in hiring you.  If experience is the problem, you might ask to work for some time as an unpaid volunteer for them because you are so interested in their company/industry.  

Going as unpaid volunteer just for experience.  Try to get a teacher or professor to supervise this.  Many people are exploited.  Other workers sometimes resent the freebie.  You might also have problems with your social service cheques if you have a maximum number of hours you can volunteer per week.

I thought the two-tick symbol just meant that the employer was "positive about disability". I thought only the civil service offered guaranteed interviews to people with disabilities. Are there other employers that do this?

I once applied for a civil service job that offered a guaranteed interview to anyone with a disability providing they met the minimum criteria for the job. These included some basic academic qualifications, which I had, and some very vague criteria (e.g., I had to demonstrate that I had experience as part of a team - that old cliche), which they decided I didn't meet, so they didn't give me an interview.

Well, ok, it wasn't a suitable job for me, but I felt it was a bit cheeky of them. (I said on the form what my disability was.)

Ooh, don't get me started on this issue!  :evil:  :lol:

Yes, there's a lot of tokenism about.  I think that more and more in Blair's UK (sorry to make a political point, but it does seem to be a 'New Labour' thing) everything is about superficial stuff and little of underlying substance.

So long as you have a 'disability policy' in place, you have a section about it on your website, you have a glossy brochure about it, you can tick boxes and meet targets.

It seems to me that all the emphasis is on the superficial stuff, pretending like they give a damn.  They don't actually have to do anything.

Here's my experiences:  

I had an interview for a bursary (more related to my physical disability, didn't go into the AS) where one of the interviewees was HR staff at a well known media organisation.  In that interview, the HR person told me that the organisation has a disability policy, supports disabled people, blah blah blah.  I happened to be doing a work placement in that organisation at the time.  The very next day, I was having some problems because of working practices arising out of my disability and a colleague made some comment to the effect that they wouldn't make any allowances in relation to that section's working practices to accommodate the needs of my physical disability.  The person made quite a disparaging comment, which I got a bit upset about.  

I went to see the office manager to ask if some adjustments could be made.  I happened to mention that I was surprised about what had happened because of all the positive things one of their HR staff had said about their disability policy only the previous day.  Ah, well, I was told, the HR staff have never even worked in X [a particular department of the organisation], they haven't a clue.  "Welcome to the real world."

Like I said, means sod all in practice, it's all glossy brochures and ticking boxes to say you have a policy in place.

And that's not some back street dodgy cowboy operation, that's a major international corporation that every single person on these boards will have heard of, even those not in the UK.

I am beginning to think it is really all just talk too.  

I read some website for people with learning disability that when applying for jobs or at interviews, the disability should not be mentioned.  After being hired and working a bit, it was still advising people that they had to work harder and have a better attitude than other employees.  It was advising people to disclose their needs for accommodations later.

People with visible disabilities were encouraged to disclose during the application.  This was because the interviewers might feel "embarrassed" when they showed up in a wheelchair.  It is also supposed to allow the interviewer to prepare and ask the person before the interview if they needed a ramp or elevator or a deaf signing interpreter.  Still they too were expected to explain how their disability would not affect their work performance.  They were adviced to work harder and have a better attitude than other employees.  

Disclosing that I had a disability on the application but not stating it, does not seem to work for me.  When I arrive at the interview and they do not see a visible disability they immediately assume that it is mental illness or chronic fatigue.  This definitely means they will not hire someone who is labelled a "problem".  

Not disclosing AS will make them judge me on my lack of eye contact and other problems I have in interviews.  Of course, if the interview is all about explaining my disability then I will never be able to emphasize what I can do.  

I do not believe that someone with a disability should have to do more work than everyone else nor sport a permanent perky pasted-on-smile all the time.  That is totally unfair.  

I can also think that forcing employers to hire a quota of disabled workers could be okay.  If people resented me because they felt I was hired because of my disability, fine.  Usually I am bullied because of my AS anyway.   At least I would be making some money instead of sitting at home rotting.

There is a big difference in someone saying "why don't these people who think they have disabilities and can work get off their lazy asses and find a job?"  and  someone actually hiring someone with a disability over other equally qualified applicants.

Oh, gawd, this reminds me of another thing someone said.  The head of my particular school at university.  I had an appointment to see him relating to the adjustments for my minor physical disability that my course director and the disability officer had failed to resolve during my first 17 weeks at uni.  I'd ended up quite depressed at banging my head against a brick wall, their failure to comply with their legal obligations to make 'reasonable adjustments' under the Disability Discrimination Act and my seemingly being powerless to do anything about it.  I'd ended up on anti-depressants and had a medical certificate from my GP.

My head of school's response to hearing about my problems relating to *their* failure to comply with their legal obligations and my ending up with clinical depression?   "You should try and be a more cheerful presence in the [seminar] room."  

The underlying message, to me, was that 'if you weren't so miserable, the departmental staff might be more inclined to help resolve your problems, so it's *your fault* you still have these problems'.  It didn't occur to him that I was depressed *because* the course director and disability officer hadn't resolved my physical disabilty problems, it was my fault for being depressed and that's why the university staff wouldn't resolve the problems.

"You have a bad attitude" catch-all.  

If only people would tell us how to change our "bad attitude" or how they wanted us to act.

Sometimes I am totally unaware that I have "an attitude".

These people are full of shite - they are the ones with the bad attitude and they want to pass off the blame for their slackness onto people with disabilities.

I applied for a job very recently that I was well-qualified and experienced for, in fact I was ideally suited to the role, meeting 22 out of 25 job/person criteria listed in the guidance notes.  I gave specific examples of how I met all these criteria from my past training and experience (so they couldn't say that I'd just specified my previous job titles and left them to assume or mind-read that I met the criteria).  Yet despite meeting 22 out of 25 criteria, I wasn't invited for interview.  How many other people can they have found who met so many criteria?  I have a sneaking suspicion that I may have been discriminated against on grounds relating to disability, because why else would they not have invited me to interview when I met so many of the criteria?

The employing organisation?  A charity whose activities are related to disability issues, although the shortlisting had been carried out by an external recruitment agency.  I think that the recruitment agency discriminates against people with disabilities.  I mean the advertisement didn't have one of those 'double tick' interview guarantee symbols, how crap is that?  If a disability organisation won't even interview a disabled person for a job when they meet every single 'essential' criteria, and nearly all the 'desirable' ones, who will?

The thing about Disability Awareness is that the only thing it can help you do is get a job interview, not a job itself. Which is really inconvienient if you have a disability which affects your ability to interact socially (such as eye-contact, and... Well, the 'selling yourself' part of job interviews).

...The only job I've ever applied for I got an interview for. It was a lab-technician thingy post at the NHS. (ie - mixing chemicals together to make medicins, basically). Not suprised I didn't get the job, for two reasons. One of the other applicants was better suited to the job, and the interview was conducted by three individuals. I learnt how I'm meant to act for a single person (and how to fake eye-contact with a single person), but have no clue how to respond to three people giving me the interview.

I think there's a lot of [in]direct discrimination, because I'm sure that the recruitment agency would say oh no, we haven't discriminated on grounds of disability, they would perhaps say something like:  You're not working at the moment and haven't worked for a couple of years, so you don't have recent experience... or something like that, they'd try and justify their blinkered discriminatory attitudes, but the fact is, I'm not working because I had an accident and acquired a physical disability, and after that, I've encountered hostile attitudes and discrimination, which means I haven't been able to get a permanent job.

I think I was quite lucky, Gizensha, in that over the years, I became relatively adept at being interviewed (although my favoured way of getting a job was registering with a temp agency, they'd send me to a temporary assignment, for example where someone had left the job and I was 'covering' while they recruited a replacement, and they'd often give me the job!)  In one memorable instance, though, I'd been doing the job in this way, covering a vacant post as a temp, and I applied for and was interviewed.  They'd encouraged me to apply for the role, but had to put it out to interview because of equal opportunities, and of course, on the day (I wasn't so good at interviews in those days), I fluffed the interview a bit, and someone else also had more relevant experience than me and was offered the job.  One of my colleagues, as a result of hearing about my interview, gave me a book on interview skills, and it was invaluable, I really learned a lot, about eye contact, the type of questions they ask and what answers they are looking for.  As you know, eye contact is a big thing with Aspies, but also, we tend to take things literally, so it's easier to misunderstand and answer a question too literally, instead of thinking about what information they are looking for and giving them those answers.

Don't let that put you off applying for other jobs Gizensha.  The more jobs you apply for, the more interviews you have, the more practiced you become and the easier it gets.  Honestly.   Read some more books about interview skills, and maybe get your adviser at the job centre to give you some practice interviews, even rope in some of your friends to help you practice.

I'm not letting that experience put me off applying for a job, actually. I applied to a job within the six months or so I was out of full time education, that was the only job of interest to me that I saw, and got back into fulltime education where I've been for the past two and a half years (and am likely to be for the next one and a half years, possably longer if I decide to attempt to get a second degree)

Today I returned to work after having 6 weeks off. I had a filing job at which I was an expert but somebody had to do it while I was away. I did as much preparation as possible beforehand so it would be fairly easy.

So today I find out I'm not to do it any more and so I said " but a lot of my self-esteem is tied up in being an expert at something" so my boss said "you can be an expert in anything you like" (ie. anything but the filing)

It took me more than 12 months to tidy up the filing which had degenerated into a complete shambles in the 5 years or so I wasn't involved with it before.

I'm supposed to talk to my boss tomorrow because I kept saying I would have liked to be consulted first. There is a woman who's being giving me a hard time for ages by ostracising me and she gets to keep a job she's been doing for ages because she is bossy and pushy.

I'm happy to do new work and told the boss that but just not happy about how the decision was made and that little thought was given to the fact that I have Aspergers and find it very difficult to deal with sudden changes. He said "it is the way of the world today" and I'm not sure if that's right or not.