As for my opinion, I'm all for a little pride and arrogance. Why should we be ashamed of being smart, think outside the box, and can enjoy solitude and patterns? (For example.) My "pride and arrogance" has carried me through a lot of really bad times and experiences, and I for one am not about to hide in a corner and feel ashamed of being autistic and bemoan it as some sort of tragedy, which is how a lot of NTs seem to think we should act.
Alison
No, if people don't like me or think I'm acting superior to them then it's their problem. Often I won't even be aware that they're there, and I certainly don't have the NT mind-reading trick of telling what people are thinking from facial expression. I tried for years to fit in, without significant success and without others even attempting to meet me halfway. So long as I'm not hurting anybody, I'm old enough now to get away with being eccentric and take pride in those things that I truly excel at.
Alison
I think it's not so much that we feel superior, but that we don't fulfil the expectations that groups like Autism Speaks keep trying to thrust upon us: that of being sad, lonely, uncommunicative creatures who will be totally dependent on others for everything for all time. For those of us who say, "Hang on a minute, I'm better than that", we are slapped down for not conforming to the rigid stereotype that has been built for us.
And for those of us who show what we can do, and if it happens to be something we're totally focused on and therefore excel at, then there is an uncomfortable shuffling of the feet by NTs and a label of "elitist" stuck to us, rather than acknowledgement. So I don't think it's us that are elitist, so much as certain other people who are mundane and hate anybody to be better than them at anything, even though they couldn't be bothered to make the effort we tend to.
Alison
Aspie elitism most certainly exists, and should be abolished, like all other forms of elitism.
Aspies are neither superior or inferior.
Human nature means that elitism will never be abolished. Why should we be expected to be angels and keep turning the other cheek? Eventually the build-up of scar tissue on the face is too much to carry around!
Alison
"Turning the other cheek" isn't what is required, though. Letting people abuse you is almost never conducive to making things better for a minority group. Neither is declaring your superiority.
What is required is to demand equality. People who fall into the trap of elitism seem to think that there is no possible reaction to the problem of prejudice but to accept inferiority or claim superiority; but they aren't looking at the third option--equality, and quite probably integration and understanding.
That doesn't mean you can't be awfully insistent and outspoken about being worth just as much as Joe NT. It doesn't mean you'll let other people mistreat you. It does mean you're not perpetuating prejudice, because insisting that AS means you are better than others is simply reversing that prejudice and applying it to another group.
If that is aspie elitism, I want none of it. We are no better and no worse than anybody else. To use it in this way is to draw an identity circle around ourselvs and say ... we ain't THAT bad ... which just makes us badder in another sort of way.
No, I don't agree with that. The way I feel about it is that we draw a circle around ourselves and say ... THIS is who we are. We are Aspies. To my mind it is purely a statement of identity, not some sort of bias against anybody else.
Alison
No, I don't agree with that. The way I feel about it is that we draw a circle around ourselves and say ... THIS is who we are. We are Aspies. To my mind it is purely a statement of identity, not some sort of bias against anybody else.
Alison
A little more clarification might help others see my point of view here:
When I was a primary school student back in the 1960's, we had to sing "God Save the Queen" every morning at school (under the gum trees, in the blazing sun, no hats. I remember Debbie Dortoli regularly fainted during this little tradition in summer.) This poem excerpt from an Australian poet really sums up the feeling for those of us then:
"We stood in the heat of the country school yard
And saluted the flag of the Queen.
We sang out 'God Save Her and all of Her Realm',
The only song we could all sing.
The flag was more real than the old Southern Cross,
The Union Jack limply unfurled.
We were taught we were British, and REALLY our home
Was the opposite side of the world."
For me, that poem clarifies how I feel about being Aspie: like most Australians who are adamantly NOT British, we Aspies are not NT, not matter how often others tell us that we're like them, only some sort of "diseased" version.
"We were taught we were British, and REALLY our home was the opposite side of the world" -- twenty five children, five of whom were Aborigine, fifteen others whose parents were Italian migrants after World War II, one child of Dutch descent, and myself and my three sisters, who were Scottish descendents of William Wallace. Where in all those children was there any TRACE of British, I wonder?
So to my mind, at least, I'm not saying "I'm Aspie, therefore I'm not as bad as somebody else" at all. I'm just taking the stance that I'm Aspie.
Alison
Perhaps I should add, pre-emptively, that I am not having a go at the British here!
Just that the system in the 1960's was so screwed up that you had to be somehow ashamed of your origins if you were Australian, and had to pretend to be other than you really were (rather like Aspies now?)
Now the pendulum has swung the other way, and nasty nationalism is seen more, which can be just as bad.
Alison
How amazing! We didn't have to sing "God Save the Queen" every morning at school. Thank goodness!
You didn't? Obviously you guys had your cultural identity better sorted out than us, then! ;D
Yes, doubly ridiculous for me, a third-generation Australian of Scottish descent via the Wallace and McKinnon lines, singing to a God I didn't believe in to save the Queen of a country I didn't know anything about! (All the while trying to ignore Debbie Dortoli lying on the ground beside me in a swoon from the 40 degree heat!)
Alison
yeah, that creates a problem. You need to be careful, everything needs careful weighing up and balancing. Deciding we are better for whatever reason can turn back and hit you full force in the face.
Everything is about learning, learning how to moderate behaviour to fit in with others.
Finding something to feel superior about, something to take pride in needs careful balancing with how we manage our outward behaviours.
Oh no, why should we ALWAYS be the ones to moderate our behaviours to fit in with others?. Tolerance goes BOTH WAYS or if not, it darn well OUGHT TO.
All very true. I don't want to "blend" and it annoys me when some aspies say they do it and think the rest of us should do it too. It seems as if they are ashamed to be aspie and it almost feels as if they are turning their back on who they are and who we are.
I even got into trouble for correcting a teacher when I was little. The worst thing about it was I was right and of course, they didn't like it. It took a while for me to learn to dumb down a bit so as not to annoy others. I went too far though and was then thought of as not very bright.
I even got into trouble for correcting a teacher when I was little. The worst thing about it was I was right and of course, they didn't like it. It took a while for me to learn to dumb down a bit so as not to annoy others. I went too far though and was then thought of as not very bright.
That seems to happen a lot with us, Pakrat, it sounds familiar to me, definitely! It doesn't seem to matter how smart we are, we are thought of as "dumb" or low-IQ simply because we prefer not to talk to people who rarely actually listen to us. A preference for our own company seems to mean that we are also seen as "elitist", when really we just prefer not to interact with people we have very little common ground with.
Alison
Perhaps it's our famous difficulty with lying: if a person says "Do you think you're smarter than me just because you're Aspie?" then I would answer "No, I'm just smarter than you."
It's got nothing to do with elitism, I do have an extremely high IQ. But often society expects you to dumb down to the rest of the herd and to be humble about things which, as an Aspie, I'm quite proud of. Then when I use it to try and help others, it's taken as showing off.
Alison
It's bascialy another "us vs them" mindset. I don't know what the big deal is anyway, NT's seem to have a "NT elitism" against us.
It's like when black people mock white people it's considered "funny" but when white people mock black people it's considered racism.
Remember, InvaderMeer, racism, classism, sexism, etc. all have a foundation of imbalance of power. The only reason we have a problem with it is if whites, upper class, males, etc. are in the position of power over blacks, lower class, females, etc. Elitism is only harmful if one group has power over another. The reason we have an autism movement is because we are not in power and NTs are. Therefore their elitism is destructive to us. Without that power imbalance we wouldn't need to have this forum.
Ah, but at the same time Aspie Elitism or Aspie Supremacy is extremely detrimental to us and the overall perception of us - alas, it's all too common (I myself was an AS Supremacist, back when I was much more stupid - I'm still an idiot, but I know I am now 
)