Aspies For Freedom

yeah, that creates a problem. You need to be careful, everything needs careful weighing up and balancing. Deciding we are better for whatever reason can turn back and hit you full force in the face.

Everything is about learning, learning how to moderate behaviour to fit in with others.

Finding something to feel superior about, something to take pride in needs careful balancing with how we manage our outward behaviours.

If by aspie elitism you mean that we feel superior to NTs, I reckon that it is caught up in a whole load of stuff. But at any rate ... who is being elitist? Is it aspies claiming to be superior, and demeaning everybody else? Or is it everybody else feeling demeaned by us.

If it is the former, then that is irritating. But in my experience, I have so much analytical ability that I can be ten times round the argument before the NTs have even encountered the first problem (which inevitably results them in stopping and saying 'you can't do that because of...'). Does that make me elite, or just posabled?

If it is the latter, then we have a problem of a different sort.

However, it rather strikes me that we are being criticised for our weaknesses in this regard. If we demean them by accident because of our somewhat superior attitude (which I reckon is just our lack of willingness to argue over the obvious-to-us facts), and we can't read their displeasure in them, is it really justifiable to criticise us? I can see that blending in by working with their traits is useful, but it should not be to the detriment of the positives we get with this condition.

Personally I have found my sister's explanation the best. ... 'you annoy people because you always think you are right. And the trouble is, you usually are, and that is even more annoying'.

It seems to me that it is not us who are so much likely to have a superior, or elitist, attitude. Perhaps it is more that the NTs can't cope with simple straightforward statement which is not wrapped up in the multilayered, many faceted lies and ellisions that they need to be able to take a truth on the chin.

If that is elitism ... i'm running for President ... who wants on the ticket!!

And no, I am not about to change myself radically just to fit in with them. For a start it wouldn't be me. Secondly, I would have to put so much energy into it I would be utterly exhausted by 10am. Thirdly I would spend so much creative space on it that I would be no use to anybody. The choice is clear ... nice or useful ... the NTs prefer nice .. oh, and for us all to wade around in the shitheap of a world they have created by that approach. Fourthly, I am not about to be institutionalised or reconfigured. I am valuable, thanking you very much.

The problem of elitism disappears when you think of elitism as being for everyone. If you can be very good at something, then you are in the elite. This is what drives the world on. If you do not try to be in the elite, then you deserve to be scantily regarded because you are not making the best of your possibilities for the coming generation. But everybody can be elite at something if they want to and they try.

<Lifts glass>
Ladies and gentlemen, a toast... to the Elite, and to the Aspies ... if that's not too much of a tautology!
<thinks>
<winks>
<drinks>
<sinks ... back into his chair>
<gets on with being elite>

Aspie elitism most certainly exists, and should be abolished, like all other forms of elitism.

Aspies are neither superior or inferior.

I've just read this thread again, and I came to another conclusion than the one I did earlier (although I stand by all of that!!)

I wonder if Aspie elitism isn't more about aspie's figuring that because they are HFAs, and more or less invisible in terms of autistic behaviour (mostly), if aspie elitism isn't about us not wanting to be known as autists because that has such a deleterious effect on how people think about us.

If that is aspie elitism, I want none of it. We are no better and no worse than anybody else. To use it in this way is to draw an identity circle around ourselvs and say ... we ain't THAT bad ... which just makes us badder in another sort of way.

Oh absolutely. But pride and happiness in oneself should never come at the expense of a lesser value being put on others as 'people', even if they are an outgroup.

I think I may have been a bit misunderstood here. I was arguing that if that was aspie elitism, I wanted none of it. and I am afraid it does form part of it. There is absolutely no reason not to have an identity, an ingroup identity, pride in that identity, and pride in one's own abilities. I was just saying that if it went beyond that, into a more definitely 'we're better than you, or them' sort of construct, I wouldn't have any part of it.

it funny i have aspie friends that have a great amount of aspie pride too the point they want their own nation. the only type of pride i have is just that i love being myself. if i had to act like someone my parents want me to be then i would fall into great depression. the reason i know this is because i tried it. and it take all my energy and my happyiness alway. it why i hate being home now because i have to act like a nt and i still stink at it and when i miss up my parents go off on me, For example rocking in the car when there music on. they go off on me. or i talked to my self they go off on me. it get to the point that i am shameful to me. and i am away from them i am happy because i can be myself. i can stim, get overly excited, talk about my passions. too me i don't care if it make me look spastic i am being myself and it feel right and good. i don't know if that hublus pride but i just love being myself and i would have it anyother way. i would rather be labelled as re*** then not get to be myself. it hard for me to try to be normal and i some times think about the highneeds kids and how i can be them selfs and i can't just because my iq is higher. too me that not really fair. that just i how i feel about it....sorry for rant. i had to get that off my chest

One of the difficulties for the NT teacher is that they need to look like they are in total control of both the students and their subjects. The bit they don't get is that when they are not in total control of their subjects, for however small a moment and however inadvertently, they simply make themselves look ridiculous by insisting that they are right when everybody else can see they are not. Their stance, and therefore character, becomes ridiculous and unsustainable. Very small children do this because they have no theory of mind. The sensible thing, on a sustainable logic basis, is to use the intervention to move the whole thing on.

Resistance, as Spock would have said, is futile. Someone needs to get that facepalm piccy out again

Serebhiiq ... see the error of your ways and learn from it ... learn to use it to your advantage ... learn to promote yourself as a useful member of the society you are in to helop others.

Medusa ... science ... sacrificial zinc, perforated bars ... these seem like weaknesses, but they are in fact strengtheners. They allow the main job to go on. If the wee muppets take advantage of it, you can find ways to fight it. If you deny its existence, they will know, and you will have NO defence ... better of two evils etc!!!!

twice

i disagree with your idea that NTs can't have higher IQ i have severial really highly intelligent NT friends. and they really nice and accepting.

oh ok, sorry i miss read what your were saying i understand now.

Hi, Liero.  Don't think I've met you.  I agree with much of what you said in your post.  However, I think many of us have a hard time studying, many of us have a hard time with aggression leading to violence, many of us have a hard time thinking before we act, and many of us have a hard time being organized.  But we do tend to respect laws and don't tell lies and are honest and respectful.  The other things I think society needs to help aspie children with.  Enough people here have said there are special programs around the country that help us deal with emotions and executive dysfunction related issues, and I think access to those types of programs should be available to all.

I'm glad you're here.  This is a place that makes me feel okay about having Asperger's.  I wouldn't trade it.  It's nice to not feel as isolated.  Also it's good that some of us have Aspie family members so we don't have to feel so different.

Just want to say, Liero, that what you say here is a very important concept.  On paper, socialization is supposed to be treating others with respect, being kind to others, expressing caring behaviors, helping one's fellow man/woman, basically decent treatment of other humans.  I feel like those of us with AS score in the very highest percentiles in these areas.  Yet, as you said, we are told we are lacking in socialization because we choose not to use our social skills to bully, shun, ostracize, oppress, dominate, mob, et cetera, et cetera.  Basically we don't use our social skills to hurt others.  The real skills of socialization we excel at.  That subject is a lecture I would like to hear in public speaking form at the next autism conference or an essay I would like to read.  Thanks for putting that so well.