Aspies For Freedom

We've all experienced more than our fair share of bullying but can we also be bullies ourselves? I read the following at  http://bullyonline.org.  I know I've been guilty of the described behaviour.




The Guru

Motivation: task focused
Mindset: confusion, inability to understand how others think and feel
Malice: zero to low; when held accountable, low to medium (it's often the absence of malice that identifies a guru type of serial bully) but could be medium to high if narcissistic or psychopathic traits are present

often successful in their narrow field of expertise
regarded as an expert
valued by the employer because s/he brings in the money, status etc
ruthlessly pursues objectives regardless of the cost
ruthless determination to succeed
can be successful over the medium term in their field
task focused
zero people skills
control freak
mainly but not exclusively male
often has a favourite who receives extra attention but who is expected to reciprocate with sycophancy
favours, protects and promotes non-threatening sycophants whilst marginalizing and hindering the advancement of those with higher levels of competence, especially in people skills
apt to betray those formerly favoured, especially when the favoured person starts to show independence of thought or action, or starts to receive more attention or become more popular than their mentor
a male Guru in a position of power may exhibit inappropriate sexual conduct
gauche, aggressive and unpleasant but not evil
may not be overtly attention-seeking but dislikes those around them getting more attention than they're getting, or getting attention which doesn't include the bully
selfish, self-centred, self-opinionated and thoughtless and with a tendency to pontificate
apt to throw temper tantrums when things don't go well or can't get their own way
emotionally immature, perhaps emotionless, sometimes cold and frigid
convincingly intellectualises feelings to compensate for emotional immaturity
intelligent (often highly) but lacks common sense
is happy to lie to suit own purposes
can have a rigid routine
does not accept responsibility for their own behavior
blames others for own inadequacies
refuses to recognise that they could have any shortcomings of their own
does not live in the present
usually extremely neat (for example, desk is always clear)
organized (sometimes overly)
tempts fate but always gets away with it
has stereotypical ideas about gender roles (though this may not be expressed consciously)
makes assumptions about others' thoughts
does not follow social rules, for example may display bad table manners in public
seems to exhibit some symptoms similar to autism, although autistic people tend to be shy, introspective and lack manipulative skills and are usually the targets of bullying, not the perpetrators (it's unknown whether there might be a common cause or whether the similarities are just a superficial coincidence) [more on autism]
appears unable to read people and their thoughts and especially feelings
when held accountable exhibits genuine confusion as to why their behaviour is inappropriate
in cases where malice is low or absent the person my be regarded as somewhat avuncular or mildly jovial or charismatic in nature
likes the appearance of normalcy but rejects responsibilities of relationships
is unable to comprehend or meet the emotional needs of others
often puts work and duty above everything, including relationships
makes power plays, for example leaves the room when someone is speaking, or pretends not to hear and constantly asking a person to repeat what they just said, etc
doesn't share information about self (thoughts, insights, etc) and is not open to receiving this type of information from others (allegedly knows it all already)
secretive
possessive of objects and sometimes people
may view people as objects (this enables controlling behaviour of other people)
thinks of self as superior and above the law / rules / regulations etc (these only apply to other people)
uses denial as a defence mechanism
there are likely to be problems with succession

That one certainly doesn't apply to me (and many other people with AS who I know).  I obsessively follow the rules and regulations, even when many people without AS may find it tedious or unnecessary to do so.  I hate doing things wrong, and go out of my way to avoid upsetting people.

If it really is bullying then it would usually have to be repeated behaviours at the same target.  Sometimes it is called harrassment, especially at work.  

Some behaviours might be interpreted as bullying but are one-time occurances so they are not bullying.  For example, one time I got really mad at one worker because she made a mistake.  I was yelling at her and having "a tantrum."  I was extremely stressed out by many other situations at hand.  It was pointed out by a supervisor that I had over reacted and should have handled the situation in a better manner.  I apologized to the person I yelled at.  I tried very hard not to react in such a manner again so it could not be called harassment or bullying.  

The problem with personality testing done at some work places is that the personality type common to most with AS are types that are common to psychopaths and other bad sorts.  We often make remarks that may seem nasty to others but we don't have much malice in us.  Sometimes we do get angry and act inappopriately but every person has a limit to what level of frustration they will take before they will explode.  A few times I actually had to call in sick because I was so angry about things that happened at work.  It was better for me to calm down than to try and repair damage from a tantrum.

If you are smarter than most of your co-workers, you can often understand why the rules are in place.  You follow them and they make logical sense.  I get upset it the rules are not logical though.  What used to happen to me all the time was that my supervisor used to ask me to break the rules all the time.  He was constantly lying to me as well.  When sometimes went wrong, he would blame me.  I hated not having any consistency or fairness in a workplace.  Having no authority and all the responsibility is a huge stress factor in most workplaces.  

The generation of people who started their careers during WWII often follow rules without question.  Why?  Because if you didn't follow the rules, even if you didn't understand them, you could be shot for disobeying.  There were war time secrets that had to be kept.  Now-a-days people just seem to try to get away with breaking the rules and only care if they are caught.

I have Asperger's Syndrome and I was accused of being a bully by a woman I work with and had to go to mediation.  She said I was a bully because I did not talk to her, but I hardly ever talk to anyone.  She said I stood too close to her but I don't remember doing that either.  The mediator made us promise to work together "in good faith", which I have tried to do.  But she is always mean to me and causing me stress, so I had to give up my job and get a lower paying one in the same organisation, but where I don't have to interact with this woman (who I think is the bully not me).  I think she was trying to get me to leave altogether but I have to have a job to pay my bills like anyone else.

If a person is very sociable, and they have certain cultural expectations, they can percieve that if someone behaves differrently to them, and talks little, that it is a 'snub' and its hostility.

It seems like a basic misunderstanding from them of your nature, which I assume is not to be extremely chatty and talk about petty matters.

Sometimes I get accused of bullying when I insist on doing things according to the rules. But I definitely know other autists who enjoy teasing to the point that it is bullying.

"But I definitely know other autists who enjoy teasing to the point that it is bullying."

Are they kids or teens?

Their ages right now range from 13 to early 20s, but the 13 year old has been teasing for quite a while.

Before I found out I have AS and before I grew up somewhat, I used to tease people alot.  My former girlfriend was the only woman I have ever had a relationship with.  She once showed be she had an overgrown lower pallet in her mouth.  I kept calling it a hideous deformity to the point she almost cried.  I know I did things like this because I was teased much myself when I was younger.

I once told a girl in Year 6 that I would rape her, although at the time I didn't understand what rape was and thought it was just sex. It was a horrible thing to do, I hope she wasn't too traumatised by the event. Obviously I don't do that anymore, but yes, because of incidents like that where my social naivete came through, I once engaged in what would be called bullying behaviours.

I did on occassion as a child/young person not object to the bullying of others when I should have, take part in bullying because it was convenient, take part because it made me feel better and enjoyed having power over people on my own initiative.  Something I remind myself of when people are being/ have been *** to me - i'm not wholly innocent.

Saying that, I am, apparently, 'too self-critical', so it might all be in my head (which alot of what I regard to be reality is )

Furthermore, i was definitely never one of those psychopaths one encounters in life, who thrive on other people's pain, I have often stood up for others and am very conscious these days of not being a ****.

I sometimes got involved in teasing other kids for being fat etc. because it seemed funny to get a reaction and because I didn't understand that it was hurtful to the other person. If I felt that someone was "crowding" me, I called them a name so they would leave me alone. It wasn't very nice.

Yes I've noticed this about myself as well and that is in essence what a guru type of bully is.

Well i certianly wouldnt consider that bullying, though it wouldve been helpful to check the dictionary at the time  :grin:

I think many times aspies can mistakenly come of as bullies or snobs due to misunderstood social cues etc.

But like everyone else sometimes aspies too are certianly capable of being bullies! And ive certianly witnessed this firsthand...

This has been an interesting thread to read.  I respect your insights.

My simple answer when I saw the thread title, was, duh, of course, anyone can become a bully.  In my experience bullying is born most often from insecurity or insensitivity, and less often from a basic, simple desire to hurt others.