Aspies For Freedom

How horrifying, autism IS my family, if we removed the autistic people there would about one member left!

This phrase is good -
"Prevent the next holocaust; stop prenatal screening for autism"

Anyone good at making posters?

I know that in Sweden until the late 80's people who were considered 'mentally deficient', which included autism, faced compulsory sterilization.

The word itself has a meaning beyond the Nazi holocaust, and I think it is relevant to the situation.
I agree that images should not be used.
But an image of a foetus would show what we are talking about.

But we would be saying prevent the next holocaust, not that we are in one now.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/holocaust

Massive destruction of humans by other humans.

Remember when people campaigned against nuclear weapons by saying that there could be a 'nuclear holocaust'?

I don't see why it would just be IVF babies. In the UK each pregnant woman is asked to have a test for downs syndrome, and if that blood test shows a high result, she then is asked to have an amniocentesis.

That is all pregnancies, not just IVF.

I'm sure we could put something very effective together.
My problem is technical know-how on photoshop.

There have been worries that a test could potentially show if a foetus was gay, and I'm sure the gay community would make a stand on that.
I am personally against abortion, I know everyone has their own opinions on it.
I thought that a photo of a foetus would show what we meant if we used the word 'holocaust', but I understand that others don't like that word.

I think as long as we do something that is positive and gets the message across, then it does the job.

Asp, your views on infanticide, at least, may change drastically when you have kids yourself. The planet is overpopulated in areas, but the planet as a whole in nowhere near overpopulated.

Referring to the discussion as to whether AFF support one side or another in the abortion debate. I see it that each member has their own opinion on the broader issue, but I would hope that most of us can see that a prenatal test for autism, followed by abortion for that reason, is wrong and something we want to prevent.

If anyone wants to specifically debate the abortion issue itself, we could have a thread in the philosophy section.

Jerry, your point of 'young ladies' who have got pregnant by mistake, it takes 2, and men know how not to get someone pregnant aswell. There have 50% of the responsibility.

Jerry said in response to Asp "By the way just because I am for abortion doesn't mean I don't hate abortion. I simply see it as the lesser of many evils and I'd rather see evil in some form than see no evil and be blind to it.

JN: No, you are too cheap or lazy to be responsible and don't mind murdering a child if it saves you the monumental inconvenience of practicising safe sex."

That is very harsh to Asp considering that you know nothing about his life, he is only expressing his views, that does not reflect how he actually lives his life as a young person.

Lili said "Firstly, am I correct in asserting that the word "holocaust" does not exclusively apply to the Nazi atrocities?"

I used to hear it used a lot to describe a potential 'nuclear holocaust', I don't feel that it is an exclusive word, but I am wondering whether it is cultural, and in the USA it could be so strongly connected to the Nazi regime that it is unusable there, and also in Germany.

"Is the word "genocide" a more suitable word to use to describe the possible resualts of prenatal testing?"

I think that would be accurate too.

"Lastly but not leastly, should the AFF or some aspie write a letter inviting Mr Watson to get himself or other supposedly "normal" people tested for the autism genes, based upon the premise that one shouldn't advocate the elimination of a gene unless one is sure that it is a bad gene that has no possible positive effects? Should we advocate that any parents considering prenatal testing for autism should get all members of the family tested first ("normal" or autistic), so that they can get a complete idea of how the gene expresses itself in real, living people? Should the AFF advocate that large population studies of the phenotypical expression of the autism genes should be done before prenatal testing is allowed, so that the full range of effects of those genes can be properly researched?"

All very good ideas, maybe Bonnie or myself, or anyone who wants to, could write an article/essay exploring those issues.
We could have an article section on the site, in the same way that neurodiversity.com does, as some people can find it hard to search through posts for specific information.

"Bonnie Ventura, I've had a quick look at your
The Autistic Genocide Clock http://www.ventura33.com/clock/
and it's impressive, but might you need to review the time of the clock, as Mr Watson was predicting screening in 5 year's time?"

Actually Kaplan who wrote the recent msnbc article also feels about 5 years for a basic test is right too.

On the issue of feminism, I do agree that while women have more freedom, they have much more expectations and responsibilities.

I would not like to have to work full time and care for children and run a household.
Also there are such high expectations, houses are supposed to be pretty near perfect, kids achieving high grades in school, always dressed smartly, partner kept happy.

I have seen some women who work full time and have houses like showhomes, happy children, holidays abroad, and always dressed to perfection, how they do it I have NO idea.

"Shopping and planning for meals often defeats me and it was worse when I was with my daughter's father as he used to criticise a lot. He thought if his mum could keep an immaculate house, why couldn't I. I kept on saying "I'm not your mum" but I could tell it wasn't getting heard."

I used to get that, and I hated it.