Aspies For Freedom

Very interesting.   I have heard the theory that asperger's are the next step in the evolution of humans.  Now someone is saying autistics are the missing link, like what happened to the Neanderthals?

There is a whole branch of science that is devoted to studying the behaviour of animals.  So some researcher will sit and watch squirrels in the park for hours.  Apparently animals use "body language" and sounds to communicate to each other.  

Really, does anyone have a pet? especially a dog, can't figure that one out.  Growling, different types of barking, wagging tail, holding down tail, peeing on posts -  it all means something.  Dogs even play with each other.   What makes the runt of the litter the runt?  genetics or behaviour?   I used to pull all the other puppies off the teats and put the runt on.  


Is the question: How do autistics communicate?  or Why don't autistics communicate?

Hmmm. Well, I can't say that Temple's feelings, in particular, are the same as mine, but overall I heartily agree with at least 90% of what she has to say.

I think that many autistics are prone to this, owing to the theory of mind thing. I'm not sure that being intellectually aware of the fact makes any difference.....I for one have probably been quite guilty of this.

Anyway....the notion that I think more like an animal than other humans *has* occurred to me, and I think it has validity. I think it is why I can work with animals more effectively tha nother people, why I can calm a goat (unlike Temple, my favorite species is caprine) that is so wild that noone else can get near it.... etc. And it's not just goats, I've been more skilled with animals since I was a child. I am not a sentimentalist, but I feel more connected to animals than I do most humans.

Uschi, I can relate to your comment about what happens when you're away from people you care about. I grieve when away from people I love but it is more of a generalised feeling of being bereft as they only seem real to me when they're actually physically present in the same room.

But, I seem to have issues with feeling too much emotion much of the time but it is all tangled together eg. anger/grief, happiness but with an undertone of sadness, fear/anger/grief and many other combinations. I don't know if this makes sense but it means I often don't know how to take people and situations and it is very tiring too.

I haven't read the article by Temple Grandin so can't comment directly on that but one of my younger brothers said he's read articles that suggest Aspies are very similar in emotional make-up to what Neanderthals were.

We struggle in modern society largely because the special skills we have, such as attention to detail and ability to concentrate for long periods of time and ability to keep still and quiet, are not valued.

In a hunter-gatherer society, the skills listed above are adaptive, but in our society, there is so much of an emphasis on the shallow, the ephemeral, the noisy and brash, that we just don't compete. I'm not suggesting that everything is wrong with society now but our values are often diametrically opposed to those of the so-called majority.

For one small example, I was told it was polite to tell someone I met to just "drop in anytime". I said but I'd want a bit of warning they wanted to visit so I could tidy up and be ready for them but then the other person said it doesn't mean you really want them to visit - it is just an expression.  Well, I said I would only say it if I really meant it. If I didn't care one way or another about ever seeing them again, I'd just say goodbye.

I was flipping television channels last night and I came upon Temple Grandin being interviewed.  She was talking about her new book and her mother was also being interviewed about her book "A Thorn in My Pocket".  It had to explained that her mother hadn't meant that Temple was a thorn.  

Temple's mother faced moved so much while she talked, I had to stop looking at the screen.  I had to be glad she wasn't my mother.  She was a very expressive and dramatic woman.  I was much more interested in the interview with Temple.  She didn't have a flat effect but she wasn't as animated as her mother.  

Temple was talking about her animal behaviour studies.  Mostly about her cattle shoot designs.  I was nauseated by the film clips showing animal execution and abuse.  But I was equally disturbed by Temple showing her "squeeze box".  She had modelled a machine after a holding device used on cattle to administer vacinations.  She built one for herself.  She demonstrated it by lying down in a long box, face down.  There was a opening for her head to stick out.  The sides of the box were moved inward to squeeze her body.  Then she said something like "it was great to use on autistic children so that they could learn language skills."   So is this torture device being used on children?   I am shocked but if she had been observing dog groomers perhaps she would have invented a device like the neck harness that is used when dogs are being groomed.  Why not just put a collar on an autistic child like a dog?   It is disgusting.  What kinds of torture are people using on children like this?  I have heard about electric shocks being used on children.  

Temple Grandin, interesting woman but don't let her near any children I'll ever have.   Keep her with the cattle.  She can use her "squeeze box" on herself.

I can't remember her exact quote but I don't think she was being sarcastic.  I am wondering if this "squeeze box" device is really being used on autistic children?

I just did a google search using "Hugbox"  Temple Grandlin and squeeze box Temple Grandlin   and what do I get?

I thought at first that this squeezebox was just a parody but apparently it is not.  It is offered for sale.

http://www.grandin.com/inc/intro-squeeze.html

and centre for the study of autism   http://www.autism.org/hugbox.html


What is the different from this squeeze box and a strait jacket only that it is more restricting?  Unbelievable what some people will do to children in the name of "therapy".

So people are using this squeeze box voluntarily.

Are you autistic?

For me, deep pressure and animals fill the same need as the squeeze box. I like heavy blankets (very heavy). When I was at the dentist (who has an autistic daughter) I aksed him to let me keep the lead apron on through the duration of my root canal. I told him that I liek the deep pressure:"It's like getting a hug without having to deal with the person!".

If you aren't autistic, I can understand why you would say that. The deal is, pursuing a serious relationship is very, very difficult for an autie. I have a loooong list of people who have hurt me when I trusted them. The social tools for dealing with head games are just sort of lacking. Also, when I'm very stressed out (usually from people) often I want to be ALONE, not have to curry favor and kiss someone's feet to coax a hug out of them. Many of us have touch aversions as well.

All this said, I do have a serious relationship- with another aspie.

That would be like asking her why she perfers to be autistic rather than make a serious attempt at being NT.

Yeah, yeah yeah. The vital, most glaring difference here is that NT's usually still have friends and other non-sexual but meaningful relationships even if they don't have a mate, and they can be happy that way. For my part, I have only a very few frends other than my mate, and the friendships aren't terribly fulfilling or meaningful. basically these are people who are familiar and interesting to me and whom I genuinely like. If I start to talk to much and tell them about what I feel and think, they WILL get uncomfortable.

Actually, that's not quite true. I do have online friends that I feel close to. They are both autistic.

It isn't that I can't have meaningful relationships. It's that the sort of people who are the best prospects for my having a close friendship with are in such glaringly short supply. If it weren't for my mate, I would become very, very lonely, I would need deep pressure and a lot more stress relief, and there would not be another person for me to get this from. Besides, most humans are rather conditional about giving hugs and such. They have to be in the right mood or it has to be a good time, or...whatever. I think that the squeeze machine has a place.

I'm not sure what "essentially NT" means.  Relationships are how NTs generally obtain hugs, so I can't see how it could not be NT.  This is not to say that AS people are or should be excluded from it.

Speaking for myself only, Grandin's machines would do nothing for me; it's human affection I crave, not mere physical pressure, but I'm not going to dismiss another person's needs merely because they're different from mine, nor disparage the creative solutions they come up with.

How did we get to marriage?  I thought we were talking about relationships, and by implication, the kind in which one might obtain hugs.  Like you, I don't know many happily married couples, but I don't know any unhappily married couples.  I have no information on the happiness or otherwise of the majority of married couples I know.  Most of those I know are never-married, separated, or divorced, but this only seems to indicate that typical human behaviour is to engage in a series of relationships, and getting married doesn't change that.

Glad to hear it.

It seems a bit unreasonable to compare your own individual experience with the collective experience of NTs.

What about happily attached but unmarried people?  My last relationship (with an NT) lasted seven years - longer than most marriages.

I don't think we need to take much notice of what NTs write about aspies, do we?  Aren't we the experts?

That said, The impression I get from my admitted brief time here is that your successful relationship is as atypical of AS as long-and-happy-marriage is of NT.

Also, I should have added :arrow: if I do not feel *close* mentally to the person, then they could hug me all day long and it wouldn't do a whole lot except to make me feel averse. There are very, very few people that I feel close enough to to enjoy getting a hug.

An analogy would be dying of thirst while stranded on a raft in the ocean. Yes, there is plenty of water, but none that I can drink!

I am very lucky to finally have found my aspie mate; before him, I had to get a lot of my needs filled through various other ways, including curling up tightly into a ball, backing myself firmly into corners, spending a lot of time with animals, rocking, deep pressure, and more. Before him, even when I was in relationships, it didn't do a whole lot for me. I could spend all night in someone's arms and still feel deeply lonely and desperate inside.                                  

I think that it's great when we can find another of our own kind, but this doesn't always happen, or we have to wait for it. I am not going to diss  any non-violent or non-abusive way of filling one's needs.... Additionally, has anyone considered that many autistics are aesexual and simply don't want sex at all, or that many of us are not straight?

You are the customer! Tell them that you are autistic and that you have serious anxiety problems, which would be somewhat alleviated by letting you wear the lead apron. For goodness sake, it isn't like it's going to cost them anything. I would ask them ahead of time if they will let you, and if they say no, then tell them that you're going to cancel the appointment and find a dentist who will be accomodating to disabled clients.

Years ago, I read a psychology article about how people could be divided into "high" and "low" screeners. "High" screeners could disregard much of the incoming stimuli they were subject to whereas "low screeners" had much more trouble in doing this.

This attribute was not spoken of in terms of autism or personality types as such but I would suspect many of us are "low screeners" and find it very difficult to choose between competing stimuli to determine which is the most important to attend to.