What Temple says may be true for her but certainly not for all of us. She makes lots of generalizations like that but a PhD in the USA is a license to do that.
Jerry Newport
I recently read an interview with Temple Grandin in the Guardian. I thought exactly the same thing - she's saying things that aren't true of all of us (see here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/s...87,00.html)
Would you mind copying the text and putting it here? I really don't want to become a member in a thousand papers to read all the articles where somebody only puts a link here!
Thanks guys, I read the article.
It's an interesting article, no doubt. But I agree that to a large degree she is not speaking for me. There are ways I am like her, and many other ones where I am not.
For instance, I have a much wider range of emotions than her. Even though it appears that they are not as strong as the emotions most NTs are feeling, they are still there.
I do feel love. But at the same time, when I am separated from the people I love (my kids and grandchildren, for instance), I do not miss them. I will go and visit whenever I feel like it, because I like observing how the kids change over time, but I don't miss them in between visits.
I also don't seem to feel grief the way NTs do. I was sad when my father died, but not for long. Of course, if you don't miss people, that might explain it. I don't know.
I do identify with what she says about looking at a beautiful sunset, where people go, "Wow, look at that, isn't it gorgeous!" I will look at it, and think that it is very pretty, but I won't feel any emotions, and won't show any or say anything. If I have a camera with me, I might take a picture, though. Then my NT kids can say, "Oh, how beautiful", when I show it to them, and think I am a pretty good photographer :wink: .
I object to Grandin's habit of over generalisation. She over-generalises her own characteristics (which I'm not sure she draws the correct conclusions about) to all other autistics.
Grandin also over-generalises in her idea that autistics are more like animals than NTs. Maybe we are more like animals because of less skill in verbal language. But there are many questions that I could raise about that idea. Firstly some autistics seem to be much better at communication in print than verbally, while some huge proportion of the general population are supposed to be functionally illiterate, so how language impaired are we? Secondly, are animals really devoid of language abilities? We know that animals do have body language, so where would we belong in comparison to animals and "normal" humans with regard to body language?
Grandin asserts that autistics are in between animals and "normal" humans with regard to language. From this she then generalises that autistics are generally in between animals or children and normal adult humans (that is how her words read to me). This is an over-generalisation. Is language the only thing about humans that differentiates them from animals? I don't think so. Do baboons install computer networks? Has any animal mastered the use of tools such as fire or lethal designed projectiles or the wheel? I don't think so!
Grandin's new book is titled "Animals in translation", but I know books often go by different names in the UK and the USA.
I like to meow at cats till I get a meow in reply.
Is it the usual thing for autism conferences to have just the one token autistic speaker, a Grandin or a Lawson or a Donna Williams?
For one small example, I was told it was polite to tell someone I met to just "drop in anytime". I said but I'd want a bit of warning they wanted to visit so I could tidy up and be ready for them but then the other person said it doesn't mean you really want them to visit - it is just an expression. Well, I said I would only say it if I really meant it. If I didn't care one way or another about ever seeing them again, I'd just say goodbye.
Saying that to anybody would scare me to death, I'd be afraid somebody would just come uninvited any moment all day long! I have told all my friends that I'd like to see them, but I need them to call ahead of time, preferably at least a day ahead of time before seeing me. They all understand that I can't handle sudden unanticipated visits. My friends respect and understand that, and anybody who is rude enough to ignore my request can't be my friend.
And I agree that I never say anything I don't mean, I don't care if certain people consider lying polite. I always say what I mean and mean what I say, and I NEVER lie to be polite (in fact, I don't lie, because it feels just terribly wrong).
But as for Aspies being similar in emotional make-up to Neanderthals, how do the writers of these articles know about that, have they lived with them or interviewed one?
I believe my kids (both male and female) get the same kind of sensory pleasure as the squeeze box effect from constantly wrestling and play-fighting with eachother. They are really great playmates. Constantly engaged on hand-to-hand combat, or giving eachother rides on their backs.
I realise that this kind of play might not be enjoyable for a kid who is seriously autistic, but I think someone needs to point out the obvious fact that Grandin's squeeze box is a rather strange substitute for physical contact with another human being. I think it's time someone asked Grandin why she prefers to build strange devices rather than make a serious attempt at pursuing a relationship.
Chamoisee, I'm a self-diagnosed aspie married to a man who I am sure is also an aspie. All our kids have many autistic traits. I do understand the issues with regard to relationships between NTs and aspies having found myself to be incompatible with the common type, but I've not experienced major issues to do with trust or head games with my aspie husband.
Where I live dentists don't use lead aprons any more. I've forgotten why that is. I think it might be something to do with the poisonous qualities of lead.
My little boy loves to be squeezed - if he becomes anxious or close to being overloaded he will squeeze himself into the smallest of places. He loves to lay on the bed and have a mattress put on top of him. I'm sure he would love one of these squeeze boxes, but as they are so expensive we have to find other ways.
There's nothing essentially NT about being in a relationship. How many happliy married NTs do I know personally IRL? Three couples, maybe. The rest are widowed, separated, divorced, unhappy or gay. Online I've come across quite a few aspies who are in relationships with others who are on the spectrum. I'm one of them.
Sure enough, If you want to be in a relationship with an NT you will proably be expected to act NT or engage in endless discussions about incompatibilities and misunderstandings, but dealing with NTs is an entirely separate issue to simply being in a relationship.
I've been happily married to another person who is also an aspie for many years, but only a minority of the NTs that I know IRL are happliy married or genuinely content to live alone. I regard happily married people as being more competent with regard to relationships than are divorced or separated or unhappily single or unhappily attached people. If you care to peruse the stuff that NTs write about aspies in relationships, they tend to have the attitude that they are the experts on relationships, and we the ignorant ones with regards to starting and maintaining relationships. Their assumptions are starkly contradicted by my own personal experiences.
Grandin was a most vocal opponent of Holding Therapy, which claimed to have the same principles as the squeeze box, it was a load of nonsense.
Holding Therapy was a Psychoanalyst idea that children being held tightly will grow a stronger bond with their parent despite them struggling and finding it painful.
Grandin said that the key to her squeezer working was that the person inside it was controlling it by remote, so felt completely safe. It was a purely sensory device, not Psychoanalytic garbage.
As for the animals like Autistics thing, it is both right and wrong in the same way Baron-Cohen's Male Brain Theory is. You can say that NTs are like animals because they like having sex, a common trait, but you don't think of it as novel or unusual. But when common traits are found between Autistics and animals, the relevence is often exaggerated.
Vegetarians are like animals because they don't eat meat and a lot of animals don't eat meat.
Colourblind people are like animals because a lot of animals are colourblind.
Ho hum, it really isn't that difficult.
Sunny wrote
Quote:
I regard happily married people as being more competent with regard to relationships than are divorced or separated or unhappily single or unhappily attached people.
What about happily attached but unmarried people? My last relationship (with an NT) lasted seven years - longer than most marriages.
I think that was an oversight on my part. These days there doesn't seem to be much legal difference in Australia between married and defacto anyway. The words "husband" and "wife" and "illegitimate" seem to be politically incorrect these days. We are all just called partners and guardians.
Lucas wrote
Grandin was a most vocal opponent of Holding Therapy, which claimed to have the same principles as the squeeze box, it was a load of nonsense.
Holding Therapy was a Psychoanalyst idea that children being held tightly will grow a stronger bond with their parent despite them struggling and finding it painful.
Grandin was right to oppose this kind of therapy. It sounds like that same kind of thing that "Attachment Therapists" were doing to a female child in the US when they killed her. I think they are doing time now.