Thank you.
That's what I actually do when he keeps on shouting or self-pitying. But it can take hours until he has done with it. And he is very noisy. I can hear him in the whole house (and of course the neighbours do :roll: ), even in the basement (his room is 1rst floor).
And it is destroying my own nerves, he has a tone/voice then, that I can't bear physically - it just makes me "crazy", seems my brain just doesn't function anymore then.
Sibylle (wants to self-pity herself now :wink: )
This is a 7 1/2 year old child and you are laying all these heavy concepts upon him such as "being responsible for changing" and the like. The poor kid is crying out for help.!It isn't normal for a child that age to talk about suicide so I think he needs medical help asap.
I am an adult with autism and when I make a social "faux pas", I sometimes feel I could just about "die of embarrassment" and get momentary suicidal/self-harm feelings (and sometimes longer if it is was really embarrassing).
It isn't necessary self-pity - it is a manifestation of emotional overload. I wish I didn't react this way as we all do embarrassing things sometimes and make social mistakes. I know this intellectually but on the feeling level, it is harder to accept and move past this.
Thanks Uschi for your reply - I often feel just the same. Apart from the High Functioning Autism, I also have depresssion and find it far more debilitating than the Autism. It also possible that the boy described in the first post has something like this.
I don't think it is constructive for parents/health professionals etc to label people such as him as self-pitying because that is just too simplistic. Trying to argue with a child or older person who is upset because they did something they found embarrassing is like throwing a can of petrol on a fire.
It only intensifies the situation as this lad's parents are finding out. It was the same when my mum or teacher or other person tried to tell me I shouldn't feel a particular way about a particular thing. I then had to prove that yes I did feel very bad and eventually there was a meltdown where I would hurt myself. I still have bitter memories of these things years later, despite having a good childhood in other ways.
I also got into a lot of trouble at work in recent years due to reacting very badly to things such as not being able to get help with queries when I needed it :evil: (because someone pushed in front of me) and being put onto duties that I couldn't do
(answering calls on the phone that could have been irate and my concerns not being taken seriously.
I don't think any 7 year old should really have to be told he and only he is responsible for improving his behaviour. Particularly one with the particular impairments related to high functioning autism. If he is like most of us, he will have some problem recognising social cues and modulating social interactions. As adults, we still have issues with these things.
Surely, kids these days have enough expectations put upon them. It is well worth the parents trying to comfort the boy when he is upset, rather than lecturing, which has already proved counter-productive.
I know that worked with me. What didn't work was for mum to make excuses for the other person if they said or did something to upset me eg. they didn't say hello back when I said hello or if they spoke in a rude tone of voice. When upset, I wasn't interested in hearing any excuses.
Once calmed down by being cuddled or being told "It must have been very upsetting", I was then more willing to consider that maybe something was happening with the other person and it wasn't necessarily my fault that something went wrong. This is still the case today, although it's mostly reassurance that helps.
Amy, these things might appear minor to other people but I can assure you they are not minor to us people with AS. Yes, I was bullied and mostly this was once I left home - this was by people who should have known better of course but being a country girl and very naive for my age I was the perfect target.
The point I was trying to make with Sibylle's child was that adult behaviour is being expected of a small boy and it is obvious that he isn't coping with these expectations.
He seems to be very perfectionistic and like a lot of us, doesn't like being told he is wrong. He is putting so much pressure upon himself and being lectured on top of that will only make matters worse.
Anyway, often being "wrong" is a matter of opinion rather than of fact.
If somebody tells me I'm wrong, I need them to back their opinion up with facts and sometimes figures.
Thank you for your ideas.
Well, I can quite well differentiate when my son is upset or when he is self-pitying. Yes, he is upset quite often and not always do I get the reason. Even being AS myself does not always help me understand my son. He will be upset by quite different things than I was. And he carries his being upset outwards, I learned quite early to keep it inside. That's not for saying, it is better this or that way, it's just to show, there are differences.
Since the big troubles in school are history, the danger of suicide is no longer acute. I'm very sure, that his sayings are mostly for wanting my attention. Both kids are very competitive and jealous to each other - but on the other hand, they love each other as well.
I am a single parent and I have to take care that my own strength will last. I sometimes have the fear that, if my own depressions will overhelm me, I will be sent to a clinic and I don't know, what that would do to my AS son. So I need a solution that fits both of our needs.
The voice/tone my son is self-pitying me, is exact one of those, which I really can't bear. It just makes me feel real pain and after a short while I have the feeling, that my brain is doing a stop and go modus when in the go-phases I get everything at the same time (no more filter for unneeded information) and in the stop-phases I get no input at all.
It's not only self-pity for shouting at me (words like "child-murderer" and usual "bad" words), also if he has to do his homeworks from school. Then he sais after about 5 minutes: "Everyone else is already done with them", "I can't do it/understand it" and so on. And he is good at school and as soon as he starts doing his work, he will be done in shortest time!
Yes, you may be right, that telling him that it is up to him to change his behavior might be quite a lot for his age. But then, I did not know how to help myself. When he learned that he has AS (at age 6) he started to say: "It is not my fault, I have the annoying(?)-desease". And he tried to argue me down. So I had to start telling him, that it is quite possible to learn different behavior and that a lot of people are trying to help him and that it is up to him to let them help him or not.
And the days that keep me running are like yesterday. I had to take both kids with me, for I wanted to go to a meeting with a lot of people I like and who share one of my obsessions. We had to do about two hours of driving in a car each way (a friend of mine drove) and there were no other kids to play with and a garden where they could not run around (because of rare and expensive plants). Both kids behaved good and I could enjoy the day (after a while, when loosing my sorrow they would go crazy).
Sibylle
Paula
Yes, sometimes he brings the trouble from school home and some days there is a little incident at home in the morning and half of the day at school is awful. But when he is coming home I have a little talk to his aid (person who is with him all the time at school) and the aid (does there exist a special name for that?) will tell me, how school was.
And yes, the whining tone does make me angry as well.
Except for a couple of weeks (maybe 3 or 4), school has been quite good since about two weeks before easter. But now it's again the homework he minds.
And he can't find friends. Well, he has other boys with whom he plays at school, but they don't visit him at home. He tries to make an appointment almost every day, but usually nobody comes :roll: I think it's mainly the parents who don't let them :evil: There are few parents who can handle the social deficies of my son (one of them is quite christian, the other one is teacher in a "special" school) and who would let their kids play with my son. The others probably do fear that my son would hurt them (which is quite unlikely, for there is little pressure when the kids are playing and his schoolmates know quite well by now, how to handle his moods). Sometimes I wonder if I should send him to another school, but the only other school would be one for disbehaving pupils (with other reasons to disbehave, like being neglected by their parents, having had very bad experiences) and nobody thinks that he can learn approbiate behavior there (me neither) and they would not have the same level of education like the school he is now on. Last point I think very important, for if my son will behave geeky (?) all his life, he needs all edutainment he can get to be successful. And he is quite giftet and can take on almost everything quite fast. He has a very good memory and remembers things that happend before he was 2 years of age :shock:
I wish there would be an appropriate school for aspies.
Sibylle
chamoisee
Well, I kind of punish him. As I don't like to be named like that I tell him to leave me alone - but on the other hand, being alone is no real punishment for him as he likes it usually. When he was younger he just don't cared, went into his room and played :roll: I think he now knows that this is a kind of punishment, at least he does not want to be sent away. When in a calm mood he knows that one does not insult people and he knows why. And I used to tell kids that I admire it when people stop fighting/shouting each other and that in most cases noone will win.
I will try the other suggestions.
I used to self-depress me with thoughts of what I did wrong (from earliest time I can remember), whenever I was being ashamed, too. Now I try to avoid it (I try to reason with myself - can't change history and got to learn for future), sometimes it works, sometimes not. But of course, when weary or having had a very bad day, I get the "what is this all for! it's of no worth, life is dreadful" state of mind and then it's hard to stop. But usually I know that this will stop again and so it's more bearable than when I was young.
Sibylle
I always found it hard to say hello to people so now I only say hello to people I know really really well. It's a lot safer that way.
I still am concerned at how so much adult behaviour seems to be expected of children. Lecturing just is a complete waste of time and so is guilt-raising. The idea of explaining to children why they should or shouldn't do things is a good idea in general but a few aspie kids will ask endless questions and nothing happens.
I agree "child-murderer" is a terrible thing to say but a 7 year old child is too young to really know what this means. He has probably picked up the expression somewhere. I know it's hard, but try not to take it personally.
If I ever said anything about wishing I was dead, mum said I'd get buried in a pauper's grave. The thing is, I didn't really want to not live any more - I just wanted the mental anguish and pain to go away.
Some kids' screaming and tantrums are almost unbearable to me, especially in shopping centres and other crowded places. It makes my head hurt and I start to feel very agitated and angry and feel like smacking them hard. But when a child just cries or whimpers, I feel sorry for them.
M, I think your suggestions are more constructive than just simply looking at punishing a child for "self-pity". When I was a child, I often felt very embarrassed about doing the wrong thing and anxious about making mistakes so would sometimes cry and say that nobody liked me.
:cry:
Sending me to my room and saying "don't feel so sorry for yourself" would have led to a major panic attack and meltdown. Even now, I just hate it when people ignore what I say. That is the main reason (besides getting overheated and overwhelmed by unpleasant noise) that I would ever have a meltdown now. :mad:
It's as if I have to then make a really huge fuss until somebody will listen to my concerns. Usually, I am a very quiet person and will put up with a lot as I don't want to come across as a whinger so when I finally do get up the courage to complain about some injustice, the most devastating thing is to just be brushed off. :evil:
I think Sibylle's son is reacting badly to the censure he is receiving for "self-pity". We Aspies are very good at picking up hostility from other people even when they don't say much. There is a bit of an edge in the tone of voice from the other person which don't like. The thought I have in these situations is "who do you think you are to criticise". :mad:
The thing that calmed me down best was a hug and being told, "look, it's all right, no harm done". I wasn't calling my parents "child-killer" though.
I think it's best to concentrate on the good things the Aspie child is doing and praising them.
Thank you, you make great suggestions and help me a lot.
I think it is a mixture of being ashamed and wanting attention - differs from situation to situation. So I have to try to get my look at the situations sharpened.
I can remember that I cried for drawing attention, but on the other hand was satisfied being alone in my room - crying was only for my parents :oops: So sometimes I only see, what I did at that age and I miss what else might be his intentions.
I know, I missed a lot that my parents did not tell me that they loved me - so that's what I try to tell my kids every day (showing as well, but I never understood the way my mother showed me, so I don't presume that by my kids; on the other hand, my mother told me, I did not wanted to be hugged and pushed her away, but I longed for - both may be true from each others view).
Sibylle