06-05-2005, 02:59 AM
06-05-2005, 03:59 AM
Well, I don't see it that way at all.
To me, NT's are often:
preoccupied with appearances rather than substance or real integrity.
judgemental of those who do not meet their societal standards
impatient with difference or weirdness
very materialistic
outwardly caring but not truly sincere most of the time. It seems that much of their politeness and apparent concern is only for show, and not genuine.
Not always honest, straighforward, or trustworthy. They will say what they think you want to hear and then laugh about you behind your back!! I would rather have an honest discussion of what they really think, and why.
Lacking in work ethic, (not always...but often) and they get mad if someone else works hard, it makes them look bad.
Socially correct more often than not, and being socially correct often means shunning someone strange even though they pretend to be your friend in one on one interactions.
Herd animals.
The talkative ones often have very little of actual substance to say. Therefore, I prefer quiet NT's. Perhaps they are thoughtful and intelligent.
Lacking in.....I don't know how to say this.....in passion, in a driving interest. They seem rather bland. If you were to cut away all the social crap that their life revolves around, what would be left to define them? not all NT's are this way....just, a lot of them.
Prone to belief in the conventional wisdom, i.e. whatever the T.V., newspaper, or magazine, or neighbor down the street said. They aren't usually much interested in critiquing what goes into their mind before accepting it. If everyone else believes it, it must be right!
Very demanding socially and tend to pick on you or shun you if you cannot live up to their expectations as far as social behavior.
Unfortunately, not always loyal or dependable. Not loyal in the sense that I think of and operate by, anyway.
____________________________________________
I have met and loved NT's who were very smart (brilliant, actually) and who had lots of interesting things to say, but ultimately, they had a lot of expectations that I am unable to fulfill or rejected me quite cruelly after acting as a friend....and this is another thing. I don't just "get over it". When I care about someone, I care about them for a very long time. Not just today, or when they're present, or when it's convenient. I may not always express it adequately, but the feeligns tha I do have for people run very deep and very true. It hurts a LOT to discover that it is one sided....
To me, NT's are often:
preoccupied with appearances rather than substance or real integrity.
judgemental of those who do not meet their societal standards
impatient with difference or weirdness
very materialistic
outwardly caring but not truly sincere most of the time. It seems that much of their politeness and apparent concern is only for show, and not genuine.
Not always honest, straighforward, or trustworthy. They will say what they think you want to hear and then laugh about you behind your back!! I would rather have an honest discussion of what they really think, and why.
Lacking in work ethic, (not always...but often) and they get mad if someone else works hard, it makes them look bad.
Socially correct more often than not, and being socially correct often means shunning someone strange even though they pretend to be your friend in one on one interactions.
Herd animals.
The talkative ones often have very little of actual substance to say. Therefore, I prefer quiet NT's. Perhaps they are thoughtful and intelligent.
Lacking in.....I don't know how to say this.....in passion, in a driving interest. They seem rather bland. If you were to cut away all the social crap that their life revolves around, what would be left to define them? not all NT's are this way....just, a lot of them.
Prone to belief in the conventional wisdom, i.e. whatever the T.V., newspaper, or magazine, or neighbor down the street said. They aren't usually much interested in critiquing what goes into their mind before accepting it. If everyone else believes it, it must be right!
Very demanding socially and tend to pick on you or shun you if you cannot live up to their expectations as far as social behavior.
Unfortunately, not always loyal or dependable. Not loyal in the sense that I think of and operate by, anyway.
____________________________________________
I have met and loved NT's who were very smart (brilliant, actually) and who had lots of interesting things to say, but ultimately, they had a lot of expectations that I am unable to fulfill or rejected me quite cruelly after acting as a friend....and this is another thing. I don't just "get over it". When I care about someone, I care about them for a very long time. Not just today, or when they're present, or when it's convenient. I may not always express it adequately, but the feeligns tha I do have for people run very deep and very true. It hurts a LOT to discover that it is one sided....
06-05-2005, 04:24 AM
Daniel, NT is simply an abbreviation of neurotypical, as in not being on the autistic sprectrum. The professionals use it, why shouldn't we?
As for many people here not exactly liking most NTs - well, the problem is, that we all have been bullied, made fun of, shunned and treated with cruelty by NTs, just for being 'different', which is hardly fair or right.
I agree with you that it is not a good reason to claim that all NTs are no good. Otherwise I'd have to say that of my own children! And all my friends are NTs, too. Still, I am older than most people here, and young people are more likely to generalize and be hotheaded. I hope that as these young Aspies grow older, they will also grow wiser and realize that there are good and bad NTs, just as there are good and bad Aspies!
As for many people here not exactly liking most NTs - well, the problem is, that we all have been bullied, made fun of, shunned and treated with cruelty by NTs, just for being 'different', which is hardly fair or right.
I agree with you that it is not a good reason to claim that all NTs are no good. Otherwise I'd have to say that of my own children! And all my friends are NTs, too. Still, I am older than most people here, and young people are more likely to generalize and be hotheaded. I hope that as these young Aspies grow older, they will also grow wiser and realize that there are good and bad NTs, just as there are good and bad Aspies!
06-05-2005, 12:06 PM
Daniel I'm really glad you got that point.
I know you will now go to all the websites, forums, and blogs on the net that say negative things about autism and tell them the same thing from our point of view.
That they shouldn't say negative accusatory things, portray us as violent, stupid, helpless, and in need of curing.
You can start by looking through this site and finding and going to the TES forum, and then work through the others.
We really need people like you to spot these unfair categorizations, there are 1000's of them against autistics.
Thanks.
I know you will now go to all the websites, forums, and blogs on the net that say negative things about autism and tell them the same thing from our point of view.
That they shouldn't say negative accusatory things, portray us as violent, stupid, helpless, and in need of curing.
You can start by looking through this site and finding and going to the TES forum, and then work through the others.
We really need people like you to spot these unfair categorizations, there are 1000's of them against autistics.
Thanks.
06-08-2005, 09:30 AM
We should be aware that bein autistic does not make us being better humans by definition!
So of course we accuse all NT's for what we have suffered from some (and maybe from most). (Thanks to Daniel who made this a theme.) But that is childish, I think. How can NT's understand us if we don't tell them? It's natural to be afraid of something one does not understand, even in our scientific times. And we should be aware that most people never heard about AS (me neither until about 2 yrs ago), so how should they be able to handle? It's even hard to be able to deal with physically disabled people and usually one can see those disabilities. Of course there will always be the undiscerning/obdurate people who just don't mind, but hey, there might be the same type of people within our own rows...
So everyone of us, no matter if on the autistic spectrum or not, should try to have some indulgance/forebearance with others. The magic word might be: tolerance. For all of us.
The target we should pursue ist, to be able to live together and to accept the ways we are.
Sibylle
So of course we accuse all NT's for what we have suffered from some (and maybe from most). (Thanks to Daniel who made this a theme.) But that is childish, I think. How can NT's understand us if we don't tell them? It's natural to be afraid of something one does not understand, even in our scientific times. And we should be aware that most people never heard about AS (me neither until about 2 yrs ago), so how should they be able to handle? It's even hard to be able to deal with physically disabled people and usually one can see those disabilities. Of course there will always be the undiscerning/obdurate people who just don't mind, but hey, there might be the same type of people within our own rows...
So everyone of us, no matter if on the autistic spectrum or not, should try to have some indulgance/forebearance with others. The magic word might be: tolerance. For all of us.
The target we should pursue ist, to be able to live together and to accept the ways we are.
Sibylle
06-08-2005, 11:55 AM
Sibylle said "We should be aware that bein autistic does not make us being better humans by definition!"
The point we try to make to NTs is that we are not WORSE humans by definition, which unfortunately many do believe.
There have been numerous graphic descriptions of us being such posted on the internet lately, some by teachers too.
The point we try to make to NTs is that we are not WORSE humans by definition, which unfortunately many do believe.
There have been numerous graphic descriptions of us being such posted on the internet lately, some by teachers too.
06-08-2005, 03:54 PM
Quote:
So of course we accuse all NT's for what we have suffered from some (and maybe from most).
Yes, and even though you might be interested in social interactions at first, if you get your heart broken enough by two faced people, eventually you become very cautious about whom you choose to have meaningful interactions with. This is simple self preservation and survival: learning from one's mistakes.
Quote:
But that is childish, I think.
Is it? If you got bit or harrassed by 95% of the dogs that you tried to pet, would you continue attempting to pet dogs that you did not know very well?
Quote:
How can NT's understand us if we don't tell them?
*sigh* Most of the NT's that I talk to take the stance that if I want to badly enough, I can be just like them with some work and simple willpower. This is after explaining As to them. Or they outright tell me that I cannot possibly be AS, that I must be pretending or that the doctor who diagnosed me was mistaken. Bottom line is that they do NOT want to have the tolerate anyone who is different. Conform, and if you don't and get punished for it, it's your own fault!
06-08-2005, 05:22 PM
Also we do try and put a lot of information out there for NTs to read and learn from. We aren't a closed book, and a jigsaw puzzle (like the horrible symbol).
07-14-2005, 11:54 AM
Chamoisee, I find your posts on this topic very insightful. I'd only differ with you in your claim that NTs are generally materialistic, and lack a work ethic. A good many NTs do have a good work ethic, but I also think a lot of them believe they have a good work ethic because of time spent on job rather than effectiveness or thoroughness. I find a lot of NTs have low quality standards at work, and don't understand that time spent chatting does not count as work.
As for materialism, I think some aspies might be horribly materialistic if they ever had any money to spend. Some aspies really love technology, but I think it would only be the NTs who want to have material goods to impress others.
As for materialism, I think some aspies might be horribly materialistic if they ever had any money to spend. Some aspies really love technology, but I think it would only be the NTs who want to have material goods to impress others.
07-16-2005, 04:59 AM
It is strange. I am very fond of my 2 brothers who are NT, although one is quite reserved. I am most jealous of them for their ability to understand what to say to get what they want or to defend themselves, or to present themselves to people. I guess i am lucky i love them very much or i would not care for people who could do this. It would be something that made me frustrated and hateful of NTs. But I am also very proud of them. It is hard being proud and jealous at the same time. They are the nearest thing i have to a twin study. They are in Brixton at the moment and i wish they would come home.
becca
becca
07-16-2005, 09:09 AM
Both your brothers are in Brixton? Is it kind of a love/hate thing?
07-18-2005, 08:43 AM
oops, forgot to log me in... yes, that above is from me
Sibylle
Sibylle
07-22-2005, 02:49 PM
Yes, lil, I agree with you. The NT people worth to have contact/friendship with are kind of mature and those who are just on party/sex/having fun I don't care. That leaves very little amount of people anyway and when having only few contacts to other people it is hard to learn to know/meet those earnest ones.
I found that some of the quite christian people (as this is the main religion over here), and I mean those who go to church and try to live christian ways, are moreoften people who accept one being different. They accept me being not christian in any way and they accept that I am different. But somehow I know very few of those and they often don't have lots of time because of social contacts and responsibilities/engagements.
Sibylle
I found that some of the quite christian people (as this is the main religion over here), and I mean those who go to church and try to live christian ways, are moreoften people who accept one being different. They accept me being not christian in any way and they accept that I am different. But somehow I know very few of those and they often don't have lots of time because of social contacts and responsibilities/engagements.
Sibylle
07-25-2005, 03:12 PM
I am saddened by this thread.
My self and my 11yo son are two aspies in a household of 7 people - that makes 5 NTs. We are a household of religious faith and no faith, as well. We have disagreements and differences of opinion, but we are a household that functions on tolerance and love.
The antagonism is in the individual's heart. NT, AS, religious, or not - all that is irrelevant. It's prejudice that causes the problems, and I have met as many prejudiced autists as NTs, as many prejudiced people of faith as people without.
Perhaps our family is simply an anomaly in this miserable world.
My self and my 11yo son are two aspies in a household of 7 people - that makes 5 NTs. We are a household of religious faith and no faith, as well. We have disagreements and differences of opinion, but we are a household that functions on tolerance and love.
The antagonism is in the individual's heart. NT, AS, religious, or not - all that is irrelevant. It's prejudice that causes the problems, and I have met as many prejudiced autists as NTs, as many prejudiced people of faith as people without.
Perhaps our family is simply an anomaly in this miserable world.
07-25-2005, 03:20 PM
The way I view it is that each person has their own experience of life and if they have continual problems with NTs, then they want to express that somewhere and get it off their chest.
If others have had very positive experiences then it is not easy to understand. But we all have our unique situations and life experiences.
If others have had very positive experiences then it is not easy to understand. But we all have our unique situations and life experiences.
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