Aspies For Freedom

I'm quite logical until I have a meltdown. Then logic goes out the window. Mind you, I do enjoy a good joke.

Attention to detail is a great trait for computer programming and maths etc(not like we're born mathematicians as many people think, but skill in those areas are more common in aspies I'd say), which people might see as logic.

I find I can easily separate my logic areas from my emotional areas. In fact I need to to function in logic. Not the case for the average NT I have noticed. My son does the same thing. I think in our family line the genes responsible for aspies are firmly fixed now.

I don't think that's true at all - people with AS are known for being highly logical. *my battery power is getting low* I'll continue this later.

AS is very much a spectral thing; it consists of the very mathematical/analytical people that are too logical and not very empathetic or good socially. And on the other end of the spectrum are the creative, musically-inclined (many with AS are very gifted and talented musicians and singers. Perfect pitch has also been found with people with AS) people who are very visceral and overly empathetic, and are actually good socially. People who are higher-functioning and have a very mild, almost non-existent case of AS are very good socially. I was misdiagnosed with AS when I was 17, and it was confirmed that it was a misdiagnosis because I had just been going through a rough time.

Batman55 Wrote:

RealityBites Wrote:

Well I'd have to disagree, at least in my case.  I know that my views (whether on religion/politics, what to do at work, or even how I approach social situations) are very much based on logic, and many of my disagreements with people have been based on my objective viewpoint, while they are more concerned with the well-being of human beings.

In fact, if I had to sum Asperger's up, I would describe it as a very strong ability to cognitize and intellectuallize concepts, with a decreased ability to relate to things and people emotionally.  Understanding this about myself has helped me see that I have my own strengths and weaknesses just like any NT does.  It also helps explain why Aspies may have social problems--if the frontal lobe of their brain (which is responsible for logic) is very dominant, then the other parts of the brain (which is responsible for rapport, etc.) may be less functional.  For example, I was once having a discussion with a friend and we realized I had disfunctional "mirror neurons," which are responsible for feeling empathy.

And if you look at all the possible Aspies throughout history (Einstein, Newton, Jefferson, etc.), they all showed the same tendencies with logic.  However, it may be different for female Aspies.  By the way, Amy, have you ever taken the Myers-Briggs test?  One of the things it measures is whether you are a Thinker or a Feeler (ie. whether someone makes decisions based on logic or emotion).  The vast majority of Aspies are Thinkers, but it's possible that you have this opinion becuase you're an exception to this rule.

Thanks for confirming all the stereotypes of Asperger's that the general public keeps on reinforcing, that's gonna go a long way to help the atypical Aspies like myself find our voice...

I am very much against those stereotypes as well. I think people have a false interpretation of what AS is. AS is on a spectrum: there are those with AS that are very mathemathically inclined but are not socially savvy and lack empathy or understanding of other people's emotions, and then their are those who are more abstract thinkers that are very good socially and are too empathetic. I was misdiagnosed with AS when I was 17, and it was confirmed a misdiagnosis at 21. They had confirmed that although at the time I had some of the characteristics similar to AS, that I was just going through an awkward phase, and I grew out of it after adolescence. I really think that AS is an overdiagnosed condition. I really think that it should be classified as high-functioning autism, as I have researched people as a research psychiatrist who were misdiagnosed with AS because they had some characteristics similar to AS, but without the cognitive deviations characteristic of autism. They had characteristics similar to AS, but without the autism. These people, like myself, were misdiagnosed with something they didn't have. It's not like there's such a thing as "Asperger-affective disorder", you can't be diagnosed AS without the autism. Otherwise, you've been misdiagnosed with AS.

So AS should really be classified as HFA. But the people I've met with autism or HFA are honestly some of the sweetest, most genuine people I've ever met. And the majority of them are very social and very empathetic. It's just the one's that are more on the autistic spectrum that don't read other people's emotions well (empathy) and have trouble relating to people. But that doesn't mean that they can't change their behaviour, and that they aren't sweet people. In my experience, they're some of the kindest people I've met. Certainly more genuine than most neurotypicals I've met. I think that the world could benefit from those with HFA or AS. Everyone could learn decency and kindness to humanity from people with autism. And the world benefits from their gifts and their brilliance. You guys are a gift to society.

Shrek Wrote:

I was ISTJ back in 1999 (and I think in 2004) but I seem to drifted from S to N.   Those personality tests seem to be taken every few years.

They tell us not to fear the results being used against us badly, like, Chris Marsh is not a candidate for management.

On the other hand, it has been established that I can handle very tedious data cleaning.  We bought a Census database of contiguous county data and I got a list of errata off the Census Web site.  We got free maps (and then we got proprietary high res maps when I was really stuck) and I fixed the database table we got off the database.

It was necessary to know which U.S. counties were contiguous for a government project.

When the data job would have NTs running, call me.

Nothing wrong with database cleaning job. If it suits do it. Well noone can easily take that from you. So long as they pay you properly. Always keep em guessing as to future work intentions if asked (in a subtle way if that is possible) to not let em take you for granted.

Or not creative or not musically inclined (I'm not very creative) or not academic (yes I am academic but in narrow interest range only). Like not humanities or literature or any such thing I get by only. It is after all a spectrum. Memorise trrain schedules. No. Memorise any schedule not a chance. But dogged and determined yes. Quick recall yes. But without emotion not at all. Can get quite emotional for a guy.

Forget the stereotypes everyone is different on the spectrum. Got to go & mow the lawn now YUK HATE IT. NOISY SWEATY and potential meltdown every time I do it but who is going to do it?

If you define logic in the very pure, academic terms that Amy does, than the point is well taken. The idea that as aspies "we are not openly looking at all the facts from all standpoints and carefully and with no bias coming to an honest conclusion" - is true enough, but really, who does that? It seems obvious to me that we aspies rely on a more logical, less emotional mode of thought in our dealings with the world. For myself, this reliance on logic started at around age 10 as a defense against emotions I couldn't cope with, a natural outgrowth of hyper-literal language skills and an aptitude for memorizing facts. Since discovering AS a year ago I've become more aware of how insular and narrow my point of view actually is, so again, I basically agree with Amy's point. We can be proud of our reliance on logic, while realizing that aspie insularity can, ironically, sometimes be an obstacle to logic.

________________________
Hopefully, someday soon, "aspie" will no longer be flagged by spell-check.

How do we know who is a witch?

Amy Wrote:

I feel that everyone has their own internal version of what is logical, its a personal logic that guides us. As aspies we tend to rely on our personal logic a lot more than NTs do.

You are so right about that. I have noticed it although.

Amy Wrote:

Therefore aspie logic is much more unique, less likely to change, less likely to be focused on regular everyday realities, and more likely to be biased or centered around our special interests.

Yea, my case.

Amy Wrote:

When debating or arguing we will often prefer to rely on our logic and expect others to do the same, rather than make emotional statements like 'You are wrong because I dont like you'. However I feel strongly that in reality we are not using any recognised form of logic at all, we are not openly looking at all the facts from all standpoints and carefully and with no bias coming to an honest conclusion. Each of us comes from the standpoint of our own personal logic (which may seem totally illogical to other people).

Some weeks ago I strongly argued with my boss about some music show, as I was aware that his position was strong, I believed that moment that my position was unbreakable. All ended that he said - it is impossible to argue with you, because you take no opinion into account. And it is true. All his arguments was week inside my logic.

Some time ago I used to engage in useless arguments online. But though I found some enjoyment in it, I didn't enjoy the back and forth aspect of a typical argument. I preferred to merely identify and point out all the logical fallacies in my target's argument, and that was usually the end of it. So I give you this reference page, devoted to every logical fallacy there is -- a site that I've had bookmarked across three computers. http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

i apply logic in various situations. logic that has been influenced by outside forces (school, family, media) and by my own conclusions.

I have looked at this thread again. My sense is that "Aspies" are indeed very logical. However, I also believe that emotions can become overwhelming, and that logical thinking is an escape from the confusion that emotions create.

This is my sense from my own internal reasonings, and from what I have observed in others. Others on the Autistic spectrum may have different experiences, since I can only speak from an individual standpoint.

aspie44.8 Wrote:

To add to this, a lot of aspies have synesthesia. Seeing colors on letters? A logical person would be the last to understand how that works.

From my earliest years, I saw colors in numbers. To me, that is the most logical thing.

It was a surprise when I found out that others could not do this.

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