09-02-2008, 09:41 PM
09-02-2008, 09:51 PM
Amy Wrote:
I feel that we actually have the same amount of emotional feelings as anyone else, however we may not realise or even know what we are feeling, and we are quicker to become over-emotional that NTs. The latter point being a reverse of popular thought.
Quoted for truth.
I actually..agree with near everything there.
but as Max predicted, this is likely to be a somewhat...bumpy...thread.
09-02-2008, 11:04 PM
I've always seen myself as approaching problem solving with more logic than emotion.
For example, when deciding whether or not to have a baby, I researched the topic. Made a spreadsheet of pros and cons, projected expenses, and listed benefits vs labor involved in child rearing. I read books, attended seminars and interviewed parents. Whereas a lot of people just "feel" they want children.
For example, when deciding whether or not to have a baby, I researched the topic. Made a spreadsheet of pros and cons, projected expenses, and listed benefits vs labor involved in child rearing. I read books, attended seminars and interviewed parents. Whereas a lot of people just "feel" they want children.
09-03-2008, 04:44 AM
NotYourAverageJoe Wrote:
I'm new to the knowing-I'm-an-aspie thing and didn't know "logical thinking" was often attributed to aspies. I quite agree with everything Amy said. I'm very emotional internally.
What I do that I think is an aspie trait is LITERAL thinking. I try to be specific with my words when discussing something, and take other's words as they are specifically said. That means if I say something, I mean it in LITERALLY the terms I used. I find that NTs seem to speak in more general terms and expect you to pick up the meaning from a combination of the words, tone and facial expression. That's hard for me to follow.
What I do that I think is an aspie trait is LITERAL thinking. I try to be specific with my words when discussing something, and take other's words as they are specifically said. That means if I say something, I mean it in LITERALLY the terms I used. I find that NTs seem to speak in more general terms and expect you to pick up the meaning from a combination of the words, tone and facial expression. That's hard for me to follow.
What we may be referring to as literal thinking, and even, in some ways, Aspielogic, is probably an extreme lack of intellect in one or more areas (in other words, a learning disability.)
09-03-2008, 05:24 AM
NotYourAverageJoe Wrote:
Batman55 Wrote:
NotYourAverageJoe Wrote:
I'm new to the knowing-I'm-an-aspie thing and didn't know "logical thinking" was often attributed to aspies. I quite agree with everything Amy said. I'm very emotional internally.
What I do that I think is an aspie trait is LITERAL thinking. I try to be specific with my words when discussing something, and take other's words as they are specifically said. That means if I say something, I mean it in LITERALLY the terms I used. I find that NTs seem to speak in more general terms and expect you to pick up the meaning from a combination of the words, tone and facial expression. That's hard for me to follow.
What I do that I think is an aspie trait is LITERAL thinking. I try to be specific with my words when discussing something, and take other's words as they are specifically said. That means if I say something, I mean it in LITERALLY the terms I used. I find that NTs seem to speak in more general terms and expect you to pick up the meaning from a combination of the words, tone and facial expression. That's hard for me to follow.
What we may be referring to as literal thinking, and even, in some ways, Aspielogic, is probably an extreme lack of intellect in one or more areas (in other words, a learning disability.)
Ha! It's just as likely that the learning disability is on the side of the people who can't seem to use the correct words to express their emotions, and can't follow a complete sentence - based on the actual words used - as it was intended to be received.
Do you mean the non-Aspie side of the conversing party?
09-03-2008, 08:29 AM
No wonder you're grumpy, then.
09-26-2008, 06:06 AM
RealityBites Wrote:
Well I'd have to disagree, at least in my case. I know that my views (whether on religion/politics, what to do at work, or even how I approach social situations) are very much based on logic, and many of my disagreements with people have been based on my objective viewpoint, while they are more concerned with the well-being of human beings.
In fact, if I had to sum Asperger's up, I would describe it as a very strong ability to cognitize and intellectuallize concepts, with a decreased ability to relate to things and people emotionally. Understanding this about myself has helped me see that I have my own strengths and weaknesses just like any NT does. It also helps explain why Aspies may have social problems--if the frontal lobe of their brain (which is responsible for logic) is very dominant, then the other parts of the brain (which is responsible for rapport, etc.) may be less functional. For example, I was once having a discussion with a friend and we realized I had disfunctional "mirror neurons," which are responsible for feeling empathy.
And if you look at all the possible Aspies throughout history (Einstein, Newton, Jefferson, etc.), they all showed the same tendencies with logic. However, it may be different for female Aspies. By the way, Amy, have you ever taken the Myers-Briggs test? One of the things it measures is whether you are a Thinker or a Feeler (ie. whether someone makes decisions based on logic or emotion). The vast majority of Aspies are Thinkers, but it's possible that you have this opinion becuase you're an exception to this rule.
In fact, if I had to sum Asperger's up, I would describe it as a very strong ability to cognitize and intellectuallize concepts, with a decreased ability to relate to things and people emotionally. Understanding this about myself has helped me see that I have my own strengths and weaknesses just like any NT does. It also helps explain why Aspies may have social problems--if the frontal lobe of their brain (which is responsible for logic) is very dominant, then the other parts of the brain (which is responsible for rapport, etc.) may be less functional. For example, I was once having a discussion with a friend and we realized I had disfunctional "mirror neurons," which are responsible for feeling empathy.
And if you look at all the possible Aspies throughout history (Einstein, Newton, Jefferson, etc.), they all showed the same tendencies with logic. However, it may be different for female Aspies. By the way, Amy, have you ever taken the Myers-Briggs test? One of the things it measures is whether you are a Thinker or a Feeler (ie. whether someone makes decisions based on logic or emotion). The vast majority of Aspies are Thinkers, but it's possible that you have this opinion becuase you're an exception to this rule.
Thanks for confirming all the stereotypes of Asperger's that the general public keeps on reinforcing, that's gonna go a long way to help the atypical Aspies like myself find our voice...
09-27-2008, 12:28 AM
Obstructive sleep apnea? I have that. I can't breathe for several minutes, unless I am sleeping with a pressurizer that inflates my airway... (CPAP)
09-27-2008, 12:31 AM
I took the Myers Briggs test at work (twice). I am an INTJ. The supervisor is ENTJ.
09-27-2008, 01:48 AM
I was ISTJ back in 1999 (and I think in 2004) but I seem to drifted from S to N. Those personality tests seem to be taken every few years.
They tell us not to fear the results being used against us badly, like, Chris Marsh is not a candidate for management.
On the other hand, it has been established that I can handle very tedious data cleaning. We bought a Census database of contiguous county data and I got a list of errata off the Census Web site. We got free maps (and then we got proprietary high res maps when I was really stuck) and I fixed the database table we got off the database.
It was necessary to know which U.S. counties were contiguous for a government project.
When the data job would have NTs running, call me.
They tell us not to fear the results being used against us badly, like, Chris Marsh is not a candidate for management.
On the other hand, it has been established that I can handle very tedious data cleaning. We bought a Census database of contiguous county data and I got a list of errata off the Census Web site. We got free maps (and then we got proprietary high res maps when I was really stuck) and I fixed the database table we got off the database.
It was necessary to know which U.S. counties were contiguous for a government project.
When the data job would have NTs running, call me.
09-29-2008, 06:18 AM
Callista Wrote:
I don't think it's a myth so much as a stereotype. Depending on logic is one of my main coping strategies; but I'm aware that many Aspies depend on other things--emotion, intuition, etc.--and that my own mastery of logic is imperfect.
Assuming that Aspies are great at using logic isn't even the same as assuming we simply use it a lot.
And some of us [i]don't[/u] use it a lot.
I think it's in the same category as assuming we are good at math or interested in train schedules--true of some, but not all.
Assuming that Aspies are great at using logic isn't even the same as assuming we simply use it a lot.
And some of us [i]don't[/u] use it a lot.
I think it's in the same category as assuming we are good at math or interested in train schedules--true of some, but not all.
Callista is now the new spokesperson in the United States for the autistic spectrum.
09-29-2008, 06:20 AM
vector4change Wrote:
AS is very much a spectral thing; it consists of the very mathematical/analytical people that are too logical and not very empathetic or good socially. And on the other end of the spectrum are the creative, musically-inclined (many with AS are very gifted and talented musicians and singers. Perfect pitch has also been found with people with AS) people who are very visceral and overly empathetic, and are actually good socially. People who are higher-functioning and have a very mild, almost non-existent case of AS are very good socially. I was misdiagnosed with AS when I was 17, and it was confirmed that it was a misdiagnosis because I had just been going through a rough time.
You can have Asperger's, be creative, and not be musically inclined.
I'm so sick of the stereotypes that permeate this site, I may have to go elsewhere, at this point.
09-29-2008, 06:28 AM
vector4change Wrote:
I am very much against those stereotypes as well. I think people have a false interpretation of what AS is. AS is on a spectrum: there are those with AS that are very mathemathically inclined but are not socially savvy and lack empathy or understanding of other people's emotions, and then their are those who are more abstract thinkers that are very good socially and are too empathetic. I was misdiagnosed with AS when I was 17, and it was confirmed a misdiagnosis at 21. They had confirmed that although at the time I had some of the characteristics similar to AS, that I was just going through an awkward phase, and I grew out of it after adolescence. I really think that AS is an overdiagnosed condition. I really think that it should be classified as high-functioning autism, as I have researched people as a research psychiatrist who were misdiagnosed with AS because they had some characteristics similar to AS, but without the cognitive deviations characteristic of autism. They had characteristics similar to AS, but without the autism. These people, like myself, were misdiagnosed with something they didn't have. It's not like there's such a thing as "Asperger-affective disorder", you can't be diagnosed AS without the autism. Otherwise, you've been misdiagnosed with AS.
So AS should really be classified as HFA. But the people I've met with autism or HFA are honestly some of the sweetest, most genuine people I've ever met. And the majority of them are very social and very empathetic. It's just the one's that are more on the autistic spectrum that don't read other people's emotions well (empathy) and have trouble relating to people. But that doesn't mean that they can't change their behaviour, and that they aren't sweet people. In my experience, they're some of the kindest people I've met. Certainly more genuine than most neurotypicals I've met. I think that the world could benefit from those with HFA or AS. Everyone could learn decency and kindness to humanity from people with autism. And the world benefits from their gifts and their brilliance. You guys are a gift to society.
So AS should really be classified as HFA. But the people I've met with autism or HFA are honestly some of the sweetest, most genuine people I've ever met. And the majority of them are very social and very empathetic. It's just the one's that are more on the autistic spectrum that don't read other people's emotions well (empathy) and have trouble relating to people. But that doesn't mean that they can't change their behaviour, and that they aren't sweet people. In my experience, they're some of the kindest people I've met. Certainly more genuine than most neurotypicals I've met. I think that the world could benefit from those with HFA or AS. Everyone could learn decency and kindness to humanity from people with autism. And the world benefits from their gifts and their brilliance. You guys are a gift to society.
After reading this I take back my "jab" in the last post, as you have made your stance more clear.
My point is, you can find any of the following groups on the spectrum:
-people who are good at math, and very logical
-people who are good at music (but not Math/academia)
-people who are good at writing and/or visual art, who aren't good at anything else
And any other combination you can think of. The unspoken requirement of Aspies having to be good at Math and Spock-like in demeanor is antiquated, and it's time the public takes notice.
09-29-2008, 06:31 AM
Alison Wrote:
As to logic, I was watching a programme on Thursday night on television which was a special on the thinking process of Kim Peek, a "prodigious savant" autistic. It appears that he never forgets anything, even though he is totally dependent on his now-80 year old father for his physical needs; he can't even dress himself.
I've read in several places that Kim Peek is not autistic, but shares a lot of features with it due to his jagged skill profile from savantism.
Actual savantism--like Peek has--is characterized generally by damage in one or more areas of the brain, with compensatory abilities that produce extraordinary "islets" of talent. Savantism does not require autism to accompany it, in other words. Peek is said to be one such case.
09-29-2008, 06:38 AM
From the wikipedia article on Kim Peek:
Kim Peek (born November 11, 1951) is a savant though he is not autistic. He has a photographic or eidetic memory and developmental disabilities, possibly resulting from congenital brain abnormalities. He was the inspiration for the character of Raymond Babbit, played by Dustin Hoffman, in the movie Rain Man.
Kim Peek was born with macrocephaly, damage to the cerebellum, and, perhaps most important, agenesis of the corpus callosum, a condition in which the bundle of nerves that connects the two hemispheres of the brain is missing; in Peek's case, secondary connectors such as the anterior commissure are also missing. There is speculation that his neurons make other connections in the absence of a corpus callosum, which results in an increased memory capacity.[1] According to Peek's father, Fran, Peek was able to memorize things from the age of 16-20 months. He read books, memorized them, and then placed them upside down on the shelf to show that he had finished reading them, a practice he still maintains. He reads a book in about an hour and remembers approximately 98.7% of everything he has read, memorizing vast amounts of information in subjects ranging from history and literature, geography, and numbers to sports, music, and dates. He can recall some 12,000 books from memory. He now resides in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Kim Peek (born November 11, 1951) is a savant though he is not autistic. He has a photographic or eidetic memory and developmental disabilities, possibly resulting from congenital brain abnormalities. He was the inspiration for the character of Raymond Babbit, played by Dustin Hoffman, in the movie Rain Man.
Kim Peek was born with macrocephaly, damage to the cerebellum, and, perhaps most important, agenesis of the corpus callosum, a condition in which the bundle of nerves that connects the two hemispheres of the brain is missing; in Peek's case, secondary connectors such as the anterior commissure are also missing. There is speculation that his neurons make other connections in the absence of a corpus callosum, which results in an increased memory capacity.[1] According to Peek's father, Fran, Peek was able to memorize things from the age of 16-20 months. He read books, memorized them, and then placed them upside down on the shelf to show that he had finished reading them, a practice he still maintains. He reads a book in about an hour and remembers approximately 98.7% of everything he has read, memorizing vast amounts of information in subjects ranging from history and literature, geography, and numbers to sports, music, and dates. He can recall some 12,000 books from memory. He now resides in Salt Lake City, Utah.