Aspies For Freedom

It has taken me a long time, and a lot of experience to come to this conclusion. I now think that when people say that aspies are very logical in thought and actions that it is a fallacy. Its a misinterpretation on the part of NTs, and a misguided belief from aspies themselves.

Dictionary definition of logic -
–noun
1. the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
2. a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.
3. the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.
4. reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move.
5. convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts.
6. Computers. logic circuit.

I think that NTs originally thought that aspies were very logical thinkers because we appeared to be showing less emotion facially. We often express less direct emotional sentiments when speaking, such as 'Isn't that cute, I'd love to have a toy like that'. Instead we may say something such as 'That looks interesting, it may be useful to me'.
The long term extension of the illusion of being logical thinkers gives rise to the MrSpock unemotional, highly logical, seemingly uncaring, unsympathetic view of us.

I feel that we actually have the same amount of emotional feelings as anyone else, however we may not realise or even know what we are feeling, and we are quicker to become over-emotional that NTs. The latter point being a reverse of popular thought.

I feel that everyone has their own internal version of what is logical, its a personal logic that guides us. As aspies we tend to rely on our personal logic a lot more than NTs do. This is probably because NTs frequently talk about their feelings to others, seek advice, discuss their plans, and get feedback. We find this harder to do, probably partly because our plans will be more unusual, its difficult to ask someone in a queue at the supermarker whether they feel sunspots are a reliable source for indicating temperature variables during the vernal equinox. Whereas an NT could easily say 'do you think its gonna rain later?'

Therefore aspie logic is much more unique, less likely to change, less likely to be focused on regular everyday realities, and more likely to be biased or centered around our special interests. We all know an aspie who compares actions in their life to operations on a computer for instance.

When debating or arguing we will often prefer to rely on our logic and expect others to do the same, rather than make emotional statements like 'You are wrong because I dont like you'. However I feel strongly that in reality we are not using any recognised form of logic at all, we are not openly looking at all the facts from all standpoints and carefully and with no bias coming to an honest conclusion. Each of us comes from the standpoint of our own personal logic (which may seem totally illogical to other people).

I have often seen an argument between two aspies where one will say 'You are not being logical' and the other one will retort with the same in exasperation. Our internal logic can help us to work out some confusing parts of our lives, and help us to make sense of a crazy world, but its not usually reliable when tested head to head in debates with other people.
Its like trying to play cards when each person has a totally different set of cards. Some might have all diamonds, some might have rune symbols on, mine would probably have pictures of strawberry shortcake dolls on.

I heard of a news story of an aspie man who got evicted for making noise in his apartment. He knew that there was soundproofing in the floor and he did make a lot of noise, he was sure that it was ok. He was warned numerous times by management about the noise he was making and would reply 'Its ok, there is soundproofing'. But his noise was overriding that. He was applying his logic of his surroundings to the situation regardless of the actual real logic of the circumstances.

This may be a large cause of conflict in our lives, I have often felt that people were not doing things logically, but there were many other factors which I was not considering as I was not aware that I was seeing tiny pieces of the picture and not the whole scene.

I hope what I have said makes sense, they are my thoughts and feelings after spending years living in an all aspie house.

I am really glad people have understood what I meant. I see what you mean about different dog breeds, yet same species. Unless we all had the same experiences and nurture as kids we won't develop our own logics the same way.

Hmm, but didnt you start the research because you felt you wanted children?
I think nowadays more people do plan having children because of the severe money restraints they place on familes.

why was my post deleted from here??? I don't think I said anything offensive did I????

That Simen guy that I teased to come to this forum, he was over-logical.

Personally I feel that I lack alot of wisdom compared to others because of my social isolation, but I gain alot of just that by exploring and interacting with the internet these days.

Orangeismyaura, your post was not deleted, it must have failed to post correctly as I never saw one from you here.

my bad, it was another thread actually, and it never got deleted....I had a space moment.

As to logic, I was watching a programme on Thursday night on television which was a special on the thinking process of Kim Peek, a "prodigious savant" autistic.  It appears that he never forgets anything, even though he is totally dependent on his now-80 year old father for his physical needs; he can't even dress himself.  

During the programme, doctors did a scan of Kim's brain, and it turns out that he has no corpus callosum whatsoever: that's the bundle of nerves within the brain which connects the two hemispheres.  Other scans of savants have come up with the same finding: very decreased or no corpus callosum.  

I was discussing this with my family after the show, and we were wondering if *that's* a cause of autism.  It could explain a lot: perhaps the more seriously "affected" an individual is by autism reflects the amount of CC structure?   It would also be a good reason why females are underrepresented in the dx of autism, as in NTs the CC is gender-biased, with females having a bigger connection than males.  If this holds true for Aspies/Autistics, then females would not be as affected as much.  

We were thinking that the CC acts as a sort of gateway, with logic slipping through relatively easily, but emotions for some reason filtered more, so that they arrive behind.  Speaking personally, I often don't know how I feel about something until I've thought it all through first, and I can take up to an hour or two to get it all sorted out.  Then of course, if there is too much going on at once, our CC gets overloaded and we have a meltdown and need space and some quiet time.  

Anyway, I've added the link to the first of the 5-part video here, it's well worth a look at how a man, whose parents were told at birth to leave him in a home as he'd never walk, talk or think, has shown the specialists to be wrong.  And there's a very touching and wonderful refutation to all those people who say autistics can't feel. Kim says of his dad: "He is everything to me.  My dad and I share the same shadow."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2T45r5G3kA

Alison

Hee hee, you're in the northern hemisphere, aren't you?  At the moment here it's a beatiful spring morning, with blossoms everywhere and a blue sky with no sign of cloud.  However, I am still in my jammies, since it's a Saturday morning and I don't have to be anywhere!  Vernu's tinkering with his computer and Lauren is still fast asleep, while the cat is lying in a puddle of sunshine and purring!  I love spring!
Alison

Thanks to my autoimmune disease, I've beaten *that* problem.  It's attacking my ears, so I'm steadily going deaf ...
Alison

Great site
I recogonised the domain name straight away

This makes perfect sense Amy, I know I am quicker to become over-emotive than the average NT. I don't always know what I am feeling. However, I am often seen as the logical one because I cannot really speak on an emotional experience. This definently applies to me.

Logic or logical thinking can be learned.  I took a course in logic (philosphy) and struggled abit until I got through it.  I discovered that math proofs and computer program writing was much the same as the sentence logic that we were doing.  

Having an opinion on a certain subject does not make a person logical about it.  They might think that other people are wrong to disagree with their opinion.  People also tend to have emotions involved with their opinions.

I would much rather spend time working with logic such as working on a math problem or fixing some object than argueing with other people about their opinions.  

It is a myth that people with Aspergers are more logical.  It just might be that once they learn to use logic that they are good at it because they enjoy it.

We may be more logical when we see small details most others miss. We might not consciously advert to having noticed these other little things but they can certainly affect our deductions about a situation.

I have always got colours and textures on every letter of the alphabet.  These have remained consistent over the years (ie e is smooth and shiny as if covered in aluminium foil, u is slightly furry and orange).  Just like Mars Mariner, I assumed everybody saw a "landscape" of letters like that, and was extremely surprised when I found out that it's not that common.
Perhaps a logical person would say that such a thing is impossible: but surely it would be more illogical of those of us who consistently see the colours and textures of letters to deny it?
Alison