Aspies For Freedom

"A recent story in The New York Times examined the conflicts
that occur between some people with autism, some of whom protest any
treatment, and their parents.[2]  Dr. Grandin: I've read those things, the
whole conflict about ABA -- applied behavior analysis. Those techniques are
mainly for very little children, for 2 to 5 year olds, to get language
started. They're not for high-functioning 8 and 9 year olds. And most people
in those protests are the more mild Asperger's types. We need to be working
on developing the talents those people have so they can have jobs and
support themselves."

http://lists.envirolink.org/pipermail/sa...00379.html

Does she mean that people who are against ABA generally have mild aspergers? or that aspergers itself is mild?

I got that she's saying people at the protests don't have jobs/support themselves!

         I don't think that is what she meant. I do know she is not a fan of ABA and is one of the few peers we have who consistently says that there are other ways to help young people.

       As far as what she thinks of people at the protests, I think it is a stretch to imply that she thinks they are all bums. I have never heard her say that.

                                          Jerry Newport

I may have misunderstood her, Jerry. that's why I said my impression was. Here's what me think so: "And most people
in those protests are the more mild Asperger's types. We need to be working
on developing the talents those people have so they can have jobs and
support themselves."

The article wasn't very clear, but I thought she was saying that some very young, nonverbal autistic kids may benefit from ABA and that teaching social skills to older kids shouldn't come at the expense of career development.  She seems to be saying that ABA is inappropriate for older children and for those who can communicate.  I didn't get the impression that she was insulting anyone for not having a job.

Jerry said "Temple, however, does take a dim view of people she regards as "professional auties."

Well there must be only a handful of such people. I hope she doesn't feel that super able aspies are trying to prevent young kids getting help. As far as I am concerned we are against abusive therapies, and I include giving ABA for forty hours a week to kids of 3 in that.

I may be an aspie, but I was unable to finish college and can only ever dream of getting a PhD. Its all relative.

Hi Kev, take a look at this site -
http://users.1st.net/cibra/

It seems that ABA therapists have tried to clean up their act and now many say that they never use aversives. However there are huge amounts of money to be earned, some parents go greatly into debt to pay for the therapy, $5000 a month sometimes :shock:

I have spoken to parents whose kids have suffered from ABA therapy recently, and some parents groups like to potray that if a child does NOT recieve ABA then they will remain LFA, speechless and dependant forever.

See also -

http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_aba.html

Michelle Dawson's Misbehaviour of behaviourists.

Same here.  When I graduated, I had no idea that the interviewers were going to discriminate against me because of my voice and body language.   I didn't know what was going on.

I'm not sure if the reason my parents didn't tell me was because they didn't know, or didn't want to upset me, or just thought I didn't need to work anyway because I was female.

After staying home with my kids for several years, I was able to figure out the workplace enough to get a reasonably good job, but I certainly could have avoided a lot of stress and confusion if I'd had some career guidance when I was younger.

jerrynewport wrote

That's the story of my life!

You made a very good point that the quality of life for an autistic person born into the upper/middle classes can be a lot different to the average aspie/autie situation. The combination of autism and being working class can be a very unattractive scene.

When I read "Thinking in pictures" by Grandin I got the impression that she was very much an advocate of the autistic point of view, and a strong advocate of developing the strong points of autists rather than emphasizing developing the weakest points to a "normal" level, which is what most NTs seem to want to do. I also thought she is a fine example of how far an autist can go career-wise, given the optimal support and some lucky breaks.

wrote

Even now in the state of Australia were I live there is a barrage of advice to parents from the govt and various kinds of "helping" professionals that argue that deviations from "normal" development, including speech development, are caused by a poor environment for the child, even emotional deprivation.

We have had high-profile Australians (Fiona Stanley, Mem Fox, Mark Latham) pleading in the media for parents to read books to their kids, and they really do seem to believe that this kind of intervention prevents all literacy and language difficulties before they start. These people don't seem to know anything about dyslexia or SPLD or autism or any other neurologically-based condition that can delay or compromise language or literacy development, or else they assume that these conditions are too rare or unimportant to bother considering. So this gives rise to a common belief in the populace that kids who are a bit slow or different in development are being neglected or mistreated by their parents.

"Apart from the financial impost of the treatment talked about here, how many parents could afford 40 hours a week to implement the therapy? Most families have two parents in paid work these days."

Sadly many parents feel the pressure to get the therapy as their child is 'lost in autism' and they take out loans and get into debt to pay for it, we have seen numerous sob stories on how in debt some of them are. They also lobby their governments to pay for the therapy. There was a recent case in Canada that refused to fund it, they are appealing.

"My mum always told me I would be "snapped up" by prospective employers due to being highly intelligent but this certainly didn't happen."

My mum had that attitude about me, I suppose parents want to see the best in their child and think that others will see that too. When it became apparent that I was failing every interview, after about the 30th one, she became critical that I must be not trying, and when I eventually managed to get a very poor job, she was extremely critical that I 'could do so much better'.
As if I wanted to be refused so many jobs :roll:

What is a dux?

I have yet to read Temple's book, but I can relate to not making it through interviews, but fortunately I'm getting the support I need after finally being diagnosed with Asperger's. I know that once I get a job, I'll be able to become fully independent, even if I never become as famous as Temple Grandin.

ABA sounds alot more different to me now than it probably did to those who participated in this thread 2 years earlier.