Aspies For Freedom

        Well, one thing I take exception to is that Temple is quick to generalize without grounds to do so. Part of it is because as a PhD, she gets away with it. Part of it is because she was the first of us to really gain public recognition, officially diagnosed. She was the only one for a long time and she is not really used to being challenged.

      For example, she just assumed that I am not a visual thinker and told an audience that. I was in the audience and politely corrected her after the talk and she hasn't made that mistake again

      So I doubt if Temple can say for sure what the makeup is of the protests. But I agree with her that if it is mostly aspies, their expression of autism is relatively mild compared to the full dose but that is another generalization which will not be completely accurate.

                                 Jerry Newport

          That is my take on how she feels, based on more dinners I have shared with her than I can count. Temple, however, does take a dim view of people she regards as "professional auties." In that regard, I think she tends to forget the breaks she had that most of us didn't enjoy.

    Temple was born filthy-rich, availed of the best services in her day, was mentored into a career and never really had to work a day of her adult life, thanks to the royalties her family continues to receive for the invention of a grand-parent ( one of her grand-fathers invented a transponder, used in aviation to help locate airplanes )

      However, Temple was wise enough to use those breaks. I just think she is a little harsh on some of the folks who have "gotten lucky" and found that life after their books etc was preferable to the relative misery of their lives before. ( and I am not talking about myself here

                         Jerry Newport

   Jerry:     I got a college diploma with no clue what to do with it. I couldn't make it through interviews and had no useful help. I could get a PhD now but at 57, why bother?

I'm going to be totally honest here and state that I'm really not sure what ABA is or why its viewed negatively. Possibly once I know what it is, I'll know why its viewed negatively.

I'm aware of the Lovass version of ABA which definitely seems abusive to me but as I understand it, aren't there lots of different flavours of ABA these days?

     Jerry: Took me over twenty years to finally get a decent job. That was because a friend of mine, on the local ASA board, helped me get hired at UCLA. Temple has no clue how hard it has been for most of us and I remind her whenever I can, politely

Yikes. Thats pretty uncomfortable reading. Thanks for posting that Amy.

It looks to me like she is saying that there are some autistics who need therapy of some kind, so that they can become more independent. I don't think she meant to put aspies down.

I often jump from one thought to another thinking that the missing links are obvious or have already been stated. It confuses people, and I think that is what happened with Temple's statement. She was saying that even though mild aspies don't see any use for therapy, it can be of use for auties who are elsewhere on the spectrum. I think.....

      I think you are right about what Temple means. Too many of us see our own experience as defining the spectrum and that just isn't accurate no matter who we are. It is like parents who say, " if you aren't like my kid, you can't possibly be autistic or ever have been."

                               Jerry Newport

Apart from the financial impost of the treatment talked about here, how many parents could afford 40 hours a week to implement the therapy? Most families have two parents in paid work these days. Also, what about the siblings (if any) of the child? Won't they resent losing out on attention from their parents?

As an Aspie who writes far better than she talks, what is the big deal about making children talk? Is it because the people down the road don't approve of a child who doesn't talk. I think the main thing is that the child can communicate in some way, particularly with their own family.

I also think it rather despicable for the promoters of these treatments to raise the spectre of parents being forever "stuck" with their autistic child. The truth is, that due to the discriminations against autistics (even high functioning ones), some of them will always be at home.

I got a degree but during the time at university, was already suffering from a lot of depression due to my verbal communication difficulties (I can speak okay but just can't seem to get people to understand me sometimes) and social ineptitude. Thus, I didn't get the result I should have but still passed.

My mum always told me I would be "snapped up" by prospective employers due to being highly intelligent but this certainly didn't happen. I only got a job by doing the public service tests which relied on high IQ
and I wouldn't get into the public service now as they rely more on body language and "social intelligence". If I hadn't been diagnosed with AS 2 years ago, I would have lost the job as they were targetting people for redundancies if they didn't have good social skills.

Anyway, after years of being told "not to talk to strangers", my parents suddenly wanted me to start "doorknocking" prospective employers. I was only too happy to write them a letter and send my CV along to them but anyway, there weren't many jobs that I thought I'd like. Definately not door to door sales!  :roll: Toilet cleaning would have been preferable to me and I'm a person who is very sensitive to smells!

Anyway, I have digressed a lot. I don't know if Temple Grandin meant to be insulting in her comments. She does seem to have had advantages in life that some people haven't. I would also be very nervous of any kind of therapy that requires little children to spend some much time in therapy. For goodness sakes, just let them be children.

I guess it is a matter for the parents to decide after they have studied the matter as much as they can but they shouldn't let themselves be "buffaloed" by experts and their "BS". Parents are the ultimate expert on their own child as they know them better than anyone else.

Temple said something about "professional auties". I don't agree with that as these people are just trying to raise awareness of autism in society and that is a good thing.

Times have changed, too. When mum was 12, she had prospective employers wanting to hire her as she was dux of the school. She was one of the few children in her small town who went on to further education.

As for the interview thing, I could tell I would do badly in interviews after I'd had a few (it wasn't a matter of being negative but of being realistic). I couldn't put myself through that kind of thing. That is why I never apply for promotions where I work and am one step up from the base level in the Australian Public Service.

Dux: top of the class. That kind of thing doesn't seem to matter so much to prospective employers these days as it seems to be mostly about "social intelligence". The advice to kids to put their heads down and study to get really good marks only tells half the story.

I was brought up in a time when as long as you got reasonable marks at school, it wasn't too hard to get a job.

So true, they are like vultures preying on the fears and doubts of parents.
I can think of worse things than having a child who doesn't speak - as long as they can communicate so they can be understood, that is the main thing.

I think having a child get cancer or get killed in an accident or have something else terrible happen to them like getting put in prison for life, would be far worse.

I read books to all my kids, every day, every night before bed.  My oldest was reading on her own at 4yo.  My almost-8yo still cannot read (dyslexia).  I did nothing different in how they were exposed to words, books, and reading.

And of mine.  I went to college for two years, right from high school.  Full time, living in a dormitory.  I couldn't stand it.  Too many classes, too many people, too much noise, too much stress everywhere.  After the first semester (the school set the 1st semester schedule) I managed to arrange my schedule so that I had classes only from Monday evening through Thursday evening, and I escaped home every Thursday evening after class, returning only in time for my Monday evening class.  So half the time, my dormmate had our room to herself.  

After two years, I dropped out and got married.  Several years down the road, I returned (different college) but this time I went PART time, and commuted - I was able to completely focus on 2 or 3 subjects at a time instead of 5 or 6, didn't have to deal at all with the social dynamics of the dormitory or associate myself with the student body.  I excelled, and graduated summa cum laude.

I never sat for a job interview, and never earned a penny from my degree.  I use it every single day though, as I have been homeschooling my own children for 12 years.  I think of staying home with my kids as saving money rather than earning money, which to me, is pretty darn near the same thing in our family.