Aspies For Freedom

Yeah, I too was REALLY uncomfortable around gay people, particularly lesbians, and have said some things I regret about this, which interestingly enough, from a young age I also would say, when someone accused me or another person of being gay, that I'd say, "And even if they were gay, that'd be no reason to make fun of them."

I believed that, too, but there would be times when it was like I forgot that I believed that, and I'd say something offensive and out of fear, and then I started to see that I wasn't as OK with gayness as I'd been saying for so many years. (And I was brought up in a family where we were told from when young that if any of us happened to be lesbian that that would be fine by them, that they don't think it's any wronger than straight relationships.)

OK, so maybe "wronger" isn't a word, but I wasn't sure what to put in place of it.

Ocampo--I thought that the post you wrote in the "***' thread was brilliant--may I please request that you copy it over to this thread, sticking in a few line breaks so Batman and company won't be put off.  I wanted to say this over there but the thread was locked by the time I'd read it.  I especially appreciated your reflection that gay people in Max's generation (which is also mine) had it even harder than younger people now do.

I grew up strict Catholic, which made coming to terms with my gay feelings even more difficult.  It's a losing battle to try and convince my 85 year-old Mom that gay couples should be able to marry--doesn't stop me from trying, though.  

In 1978, there was an initiative on the ballot in California called the Briggs amendment, which would have prohibited the hiring of, and required the firing of, any teacher who advocated acceptance of homosexuality.  I campaigned against it, even door to door, and got to hear a whole lot of comments that showed the extent to which people were clueless.  Fortunately, the initiative failed--all the civil rights groups actively lobbied against it.

I'm not a militant bi/asexual person or female-in-science or aspie (the minority groups I identify with)--I think that longlasting changes in thinking come with people being willing to converse and share their stories.  Advocacy can happen in myriad ways.

Sorry...I'm rambling.  I think what I'm trying to say is that there's homophobia (a motivation behind an active stance against gay people) and there's ignorance--a lot of people really don't know and don't understand the situation because they haven't been personally engaged with it.  There's lots of hope for this latter group, I think.

This is something else that also parallels well with autistic people - It's amazing how often someone who is very ignorant of autism, even when their only reference is Rain Man, to say things about autistics with this tremendous air of authority, and get angry at the suggestion that reality may in any way deviate from that.

Yes, this is one area (amongst many) that I am very fortunate, as my dad is autistic and both parents are accepting of autism and gayness.

Interestingly, as I am pretty young and didn't grow up in a time when it was medically acceptable to medicalize homosexuality, but I did grow up hearing kids use the word "gay" with derision at me, other kids, and things, I remember being quite surprised to learn that homosexual is not the preferred term. Then I started reading up on a lot of things, and it started making more sense.

I think it's largely due to people always wanting to be right. Some people grow up beyond that, though aspects of this desire exist in less severe forms even in very mature people. Some people though, they grow up believing the world is a certain way, this initial impression of a worldview usually being very much shaped by societal and family prejudices, and so they are more likely to look at this as the foundation of what they know about reality is.

I think that's one reason why there's so much resistance to accepting autism, because even though there are autistics who aren't disabled in their current situation, people need to confront their ignorance and stereotypes of disability - it's these false assumptions about disability that cause people who are skeptical of the idea to change it into false dichotomies (such as thinking that we are against education/treatment/services, or that there's no downsides, or that you need to be highly intelligent/functional/whatever in order to not want to get rid of autism).

Likewise, a person grows up, exposed to certain views of sexuality, and they get an idea of homosexuality as an embarrassing deviance, and if this gets challenged, it can't be because their original conception was wrong, but it must be because the other person is being "too sensitive" or "paranoid", seeing insults where the first person just sees their worldview, which CAN'T be flawed or mean - no, because everyone knows that they're just so nice and wonderful and born perfect in every way. Even some people who will say, "oh, I know I'm far from perfect" act like they're perfect anyway; I know because I've been that way.

Ah, the Briggs amendment. I saw an excellent documentary called - I think - The Times of Harvey Milk, and part of it showed the grassroots efforts to campaign against it. That was one thing that further deepened my committment to advocacy, particularly as when they were showing that part, I kept thinking that I want to get up and join them in campaigning against it, except I had to keep remembering that it was a few decades ago for that particular thing. (It's an excellent documentary BTW, highly recommended.)

At school, (because I was more sensitive than average) I was thought to be gay and was bullied because of it. I experienced homophobic insults and physical attacks because of this mistaken belief.

My father was Irish. And I grew up at a time when the IRA were engaged in a very active bombing campaign in the UK; and so I experience prejudice because of my Irish parentage. And even I’m ashamed to say, change my accent (which had a slight Irish inflection, picked up from my father) so as not to stand out.  

At university, I live in an area populated primarily by Asian people; so I became (for a short time) an Ethnic minority. I was threatened, spat at and had the windows of the house in which I was living smashed.

Through my entire school and working life I’ve experience discrimination (was called stupid or lazy) because of dyslexia and associated learning difficulties.

Until someone has experience prejudice they often don’t realise it’s happening; or if it is, it’s happening to someone else in a far away country; not in our workplace, home or school.

I think (because of my past experiences) I’ve become a little complacent; thinking myself above reproach when it comes to these matters. But the truth is I'm not..nobody is; it’s a struggle; a struggle everyday not to buy in to the homophobic/prejudice attitudes that pervade society.

I know, very sad (I've read it before) it was forwarded to me a while back.

I felt me tears building when I read that, luckily I managed to fight them..

Yeah, I got that list through dA. It's so sad, and yet another reminder of how fortunate I am.

In some of my film classes I took in my senior year, there were some other girls a year or two younger than me, who would occasionally make "ew" comments about lesbians, and I kind of regret not saying anything about it. I was pretty embarrassed, especially when they were working right next to me. I just kept thinking, "they really have no idea, do they?"

Suicide is the most horrible way to end a life; death from old age, an accident, disease, even murder are expected and not something we can really control. But to choose to end your life; because the pain becomes so unbearable; because no one cares is incredibly sad and hard to accept.

Here’s what The Church of England website says...
“ Heterosexuality and homosexuality are not equally congruous with the observed order of creation or with the insights of revelation as the Church engages with these in the light of her pastoral ministry.”

So at the moment they don't agree with homosexuality.

"this does not mean that the Church challenges the principle that gay, lesbian and bisexual people should have full equality and protection before the law.  On the contrary, Church leaders have welcomed the steps taken over recent years to combat all prejudice, to repudiate homophobic violence and to create new legal safeguards...Nor does it mean that the Church seeks the ability to distinguish between people on grounds of their orientation."  

The Church of England believes Christians should stand against violence and prejudice.

 "The issue for the Church is, rather, with behaviour. A range of views is held on that moral issue within the Church, some strongly upholding the Church’s traditional teaching and others arguing strongly for it to be changed."  

And so the C of E may well change it's mind about the behavour issue at some point; if they can do so without upsetting the traditionalists.

OK well now the heat has died down a little from all the recent homophobia discussions I feel that now is probably a good time to tell you all something. I'm gay, I came out when I was 17 (now 30). I didn't mention this before because I felt that I could moderate by trying to be as fair and impartial as my abilities would allow. This would appear to not be the case as I seem to have made a bit of a hash of it if current feelings towards me are anything to go by. As I said before it is something that I will work on even though it is probably going to be a bit of an uphill struggle in some areas.

Max wrote:
Why would being gay keep someone from being fair and impartial?

In the eyes of some it might, and that is something I was hoping to avoid. I still do hope that people won't be prejudiced against me for it even in the light of trying to moderate a controversial topic. Pika's post was pretty accurate, I don't want people to think I am unfairly taking sides simply because of my own disposition.


Thank you Rossco, your post was very much appreciated

I think that it is very difficult to be the one moderating under any circumstances...

It is certainly proving to be a lot more involved that I first thought and quite a personal challenge too, I hope I can prove myself to be up to the job


By the way, I would like to thank you for your initial act of censorship - because you removed the pictures I posted, in the eyes of my sons I am no longer the most prudish person on the planet!

Glad I could help

Shrek, I think you're flogging a very dead horse here. Also, if you leave it too late to find a mate, it might just be too late.

In some parts of Australia, there is still much prejudice against people of other races than white and still the idea that women and girls are somehow inferior. There is also the idea that people living on the streets must have "chosen" to do so and therefore shouldn't be helped. I don't notice a lot of overt prejudice against homosexuality but that doesn't mean it isn't there.