Your post is very interesting Ocampo
I'm very lucky in that I was brought up by very good, kind parents. I recall vividly that when I was about 12 my younger brother first brought up the subject of homosexuality. Bearing in mind thta this was 40 years ago I have always been impressed that my dad (now aged 82) said to us "Everyone desrves love wherever they find it. It is not for us to judge anyone else's choice". A remarkable statement for a man of his generation I feel.
The consequence of this is that I think nothing of anyone else's sexuality - it is their business not mine. However recently in conversation I said that I would be flattered is a lesbian friend fancied me and would not consider it any different than being fancied by a man I didn't fancy back. If propositioned I would smile and say "Thanks, I'm very flattered, but sadly I don't feel the same". I was really surprised by the storm this provoked among otherwise sensible people with whom I was talking. The men made stupid remarks about me having lesbian fantasies and the women were mostly horrified, sayig that it wasn't the same thing at all.
I guess I hadn't really thought about the amount of latent homophobia which exists at all levels of our society. I don't know what can be done about it as like racism forbiiding someone to say these things aloud doesn't prevent them thinking them and may even strengthen their beliefs.
My father is Irish (same remarks as quickduck apply) and my husband is coloured so I'm used to stupid blind prejudice. I also live abroad (in France) and I'm the person who is often out of step with local culture. I think the only thing we can do is to try to correct people's stereotyped views as often as possible and keep smiling!
When I was younger I never hated anyone for being gay, but I'd always be shocked if a celebrity I liked turned out to be gay, but this was more to do with me being sheltered about gay people than prejudiced. My parents, my extended family, a couple of my friends and several of my parents' friends are homophobic. Also, my parents have no gay friends as far as I know. I only know one person, and he can't seem to decide if he's gay or bi.
I am the only person in my family who supports gay marraige- and I've flamed most of them over it! Also, I have heard people- including one of my supply teachers- unashamedly make homophobic comments, and my Dad reckons my Nanny'd disown any family member who was gay.
It's really sad that people think it's OK or even preferable to be prejudiced like this, and others don't do anything about it.
GuessWho...sorry, "Shrek" (the ogre..)..your "christianity is a load of hypocritical bullshit and chips, frankly.
you need to shut the *** up, and stop giving the rest of your faith a bad name.
IANAC, but I think you are suppose to value "acceptance" and "love for thy fellow man", nay?
so Ocampo, are you having a Gay old time?
hm? oh, I have no problems with you Tigger, but Shrek has continiously pissed me off since day one.
Here’s what The Church of England website says...
“ Heterosexuality and homosexuality are not equally congruous with the observed order of creation or with the insights of revelation as the Church engages with these in the light of her pastoral ministry.”
So at the moment they don't agree with homosexuality.
"this does not mean that the Church challenges the principle that gay, lesbian and bisexual people should have full equality and protection before the law. On the contrary, Church leaders have welcomed the steps taken over recent years to combat all prejudice, to repudiate homophobic violence and to create new legal safeguards...Nor does it mean that the Church seeks the ability to distinguish between people on grounds of their orientation."
The Church of England believes Christians should stand against violence and prejudice.
"The issue for the Church is, rather, with behaviour. A range of views is held on that moral issue within the Church, some strongly upholding the Church’s traditional teaching and others arguing strongly for it to be changed."
And so the C of E may well change it's mind about the behavour issue at some point; if they can do so without upsetting the traditionalists.
It doesn't really matter what the churches opinion on the issue is, or whether they add the "but they should have rights" disclaimer. Being part of one minority does not give a person or a group the right to bigotry towards another minority. This is true regardless of whether or not it's part of the churches "faith" or "teachings".
I was trying to say that I find it very difficult to handle another a professing Christian who is practicing gay because by the book it is taken for granted professing Christians get to warn each other when one another is in error, by the book.
We thank each other for doing it. It is watching our backs. Like I don't get to covet all those really wonderful ladies out there (damn, some of them are married too.... that s worse... some are divorced, but I wonder if God still thinks they are married).
It doesn't matter whether or not you're doing this under the umbrella of christianity - it's still bigotry.
I'm with Korrigan here. If someone starts telling me about their sexual orientation with out me asking I'm a bit confused. That's their choice. If Max told me he was getting married and I assumed to a woman, I'd briefly say something 'Sorry for making daft assumptions' and carry on the conversation as normal i.e. where is the wedding, when is wedding? etc.
I have to say that occasionally people have told me - quite aggressively - that they are gay and I think it a bit odd. People's sexuality is not the most interesting thing about them and I'd never mention mine in normal conversation so always a bit surprised when other's do. If womeone mentions their partner I would never ask 'Is that a man or a woman?'. It wouldn't matter.
...well, I didn't see that coming.
Some women are so 'subtle' about it.
Like this girl who found out I was bi. She started getting away from me. Afraid I might hit on her. When I told her I did not fancy her she was sort of insulted. How could I not fancy her.
I can relate to what earthmonkey pointed out
The girl mentioned above had no problem with gay men.
I don't know about relative prevalences, but most of the time the homophobia I've seen in girls and women is of the "eww, lesbian" type of comments, whereas boys and men seem more likely to become physically threatening, or at least be so aggressive in their remarks as to appear like it. But definitely, for both sexes, there seems to be less homophobia directed at the person who is the opposite sex from them (such as a straight guy and a lesbian, or a straight gal and a gay guy).
Just delved a bit into the triangle symbolics.
Gays were forced to wear a pink triangle, pointed down) in concentrationcamps. Both on the left shoulder and the right leg. So they could be stigmatized appropriately.
Lesbians got to wear the black triangle. The symbol for those who behaved anti-social. (Maybe a lesser 'crime')
After a while the pink triangle became the proud symbol for gays and lesbians. But it was a symbol that had it's origin in oppression.
Later small handkerchiefs came in from SanFrancisco. 6 colored rainbows. They were small and secretive.
Now most of the handkerchiefs are gone. Flags in stead of tiny handkerchiefs. No more secrecy. And pink is remaining an important color.
I tried to find out what symbol was pinned on 'mentally ill' people, like aspies. Did not find that (yet...).
It is strange that being lesbian was seen as bad, antisocial, behaviour. Being gay was just bad in itself.
I tried to find out what symbol was pinned on 'mentally ill' people, like aspies. Did not find that (yet...).
I don't think there was one - to degrade and oppress the other groups required lots of political maneuvering, propaganda, etc. Disabled people required much less politics and propaganda - so they were simply killed.
Here's some of the details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4.
I tried to find out what symbol was pinned on 'mentally ill' people, like aspies. Did not find that (yet...).
I don't think there was one - to degrade and oppress the other groups required lots of political maneuvering, propaganda, etc. Disabled people required much less politics and propaganda - so they were simply killed.
Here's some of the details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4.
I suppose you're right.
I thought some 'mentally unworthy' people had been used as workhorses. But they were probably kept apart from the other 'miscreants'. And then got sterilized or killed. No need to tag them when you keep them apart.
If propositioned I would smile and say "Thanks, I'm very flattered, but sadly I don't feel the same". I was really surprised by the storm this provoked among otherwise sensible people with whom I was talking.
I told a male, former, friend that I'd been hit on a couple of times by other women and that I'd reacted by saying that I was very flattered, but that I wasn't interested.
A guy was telling me about how he didn't mind "the gays" as long as they left him alone (like most guys who say that, being left alone would come easy to him) but that if "some guy came onto me I'd kick his ***."
I replied, "So when a woman flirts with me, I should just punch her in the mouth?"
"No!" he said, "'cuz that's NORMAL."
Fortunately for him, ignorance is also normal.
Yeah that would have been me even 15 years ago.
To tell you the truth. That is not so bad. (Before you start to load up against me).
The next step is The "they are OK so long as they keep it to themselves but if they tried to come on to me I would be uncomfortable"
The next step is "Not my thing but so long as they don't do "it" (whatever it represents) around me I won't care"
The next step is "THey can do what they like as long as they don't hurt anyone, I don't care"
Lastly "Who gives a stuff whether someone is gay or not?"
Believe me the stages BEFORE this are uglier. I was on the way to breaking down my prejudice and bigotry by the time I was at the aforementioned stage of homophobia. You probably would not have liked the young Rossco much at all.
Thanks Rossco.
Something similar I saw happening in my husband (With just a little pressure from my side (saying hating gays was hating half of me 
))
So he had to hasten the first few steps. But did the rest on his own.
A few years ago he just happened to be in the middle of PrideDay. (Darn I was to scared to go out in the streets that time, to down and out) And he actually liked it.
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