Aspies For Freedom

I'm not only a high-functioning Aspie, but as a traditionalist and Conservative Revolutionary I also have a very non-conventional view of the world.

What I found shocking to learn on a Dutch Autism-forum quite recently, is that people within Autism-spectrum aren't necessarilly more openminded and tolerant than NTs. In fact, the overall behavior of most of the forum members was just as intolerant as that of the average NT whenever you address opinions that are politically incorrect. I've been called anything from racist, antisemite, idiot, narrowminded, neonazi, etc. just for expressing views that fall within the traditionalist and Conservative Revolutionary areas. Their prejudice about such viewpoints seems to close their minds entirely in a way pretty much identical to the way NTs shun things alien to them.

Therefore I'd like to know how tolerant you guys are? Would you treat LaVey satanists, anarchist punks, goths, skinheads, marihuana-junkies, communists, fascists, homosexuals, transsexuals, Jihadists and other non-conventional folks with respect if they treat you with respect? Would you be willing to be openminded about their lifestyle or viewpoints and discuss with them or would you just dismiss everything they have to say on forehand?

I think this is an interesting topic, because we're all non-conventional in some way and I believe it is important we respect others who are non-conventional, even if their ideas or lifestyle contradicts our own views. If we are not tolerant, in what way would our attitude differ from that of the intolerant and ignorant NT?

What about individuals who identify themselves with a certain religion or ideology?

True.

Nevertheless, the majority of NTs is quite narrowminded and not able to contemplate any thought that does not fit within their pre-conceived mindset. This is obvious for creationist Christian conservatives but no less true for eg. liberals.

Because Aspies are known for their non-conventional behavior and they are usually familiar with others treating them like *** for being non-conventional, I would expect them to be at least a bit more openminded than the average IT. For me, openmindedness is not coincicentally the main trait on which I judge an individual... regardless of whatever views they may hold.

How would you define racism or homophobia? Calling people a racist for criticising multi-culturalism is just as intolerant and prejudiced as calling a Jew materialistic just for being a jew. Calling someone a homophobe for regarding homosexuality as a deviance is just as intolerant and prejudiced as regarding every muslem as a terrorist.

I notice that many people often called racist or homophobic often really aren't. They just have an opinion on topics such as race of homosexuality that differs from those of the liberal mainstream which by no means implies that they hate or mistreat people of other races of sexual preferences.

Here goes with more definitions, I think also that this topic gets to the very root of things and is a great idea for a thread.

But first (for me) clarification of what tolerant means (to me) and in the dictionary:

tolerant: a. forbearing ; broadminded

forbear: to avoid, refrain from, control one's feeling (long suffering, endure)

tolerate: to permit to be done, to be put up with

I at first thought about posting here, but thought of the 1st definition of tolerant when I read the post. My reading (was) that by having to practice being tolerant, it was almost putting yourself up as higher, better, ("suffering fools in their belieifs, acts, words.) My reading (was) that by having to practice being tolerant we are thinking of ourselves from a superior position and deigning or condescending to be so great as to be tolerant.

The second definition of tolerant; broadminded, is more likely the definition of tolerant you are asking. Also, toleration has positive connotations.  (I realize I am from an english speaking country and (I only know one langauge) so I can't help but define - for you amazing multi-linguists -

Toleration is : act of tolerating, practice of allowing people to worship as they please, granting to minorities political liberty.

My reading (was) that by having to practice being tolerant we are thinking of ourselves from a superior position and deigning or condescending to be so great as to be tolerant.

I don't know about tolerating, but as far as accepting - I feel that I am.  I do adhere to all around toleration of all people.  Always accept the person, but it is not always best to accept a behavior. I will stnad up for and defend the monority, I will also try to enact a change in ignorant and discriminating biased people.  (oxymoron)

How and when we all go about finding people to be tolerable (definition: endurable, supportable, passably good) is the key, perhaps to how successful we are in communicating effectively with others to get them to see things from a different perspective - not necesarily to believe the same, but to see that having a different opinion/perspective/life experience - makes none of the parties better or worse - the act of respecting each person.  Acceptance of all is very important.

I don't know if typical neurotypes (in this case I mean, average / mainstream / majority) are more or less likely to be more or less tolerant than someone in the spectrum.

I started to think that many on here were non-conformists - people who tended more towards thinking unconventionally or outside the box, a bit like me- (irregardless of my assumed NT). As far as other sites and forums, (specturm sites) I think what makes the difference is the free-flowing of many perspectives and ideas, even and especially non-politically correct ones, as this thread mentions and  - like rossco mentioned on another thread.  It takes all kinds. (dis rossco say even timelord?)
To me here we are all trying to speak the same language and get the definitions and terminology right so, not so we don't offend, but so that we can positively interact or impact who we chose to interact with, people of all lifetstyles, neuro-types and perhaps to learn to accept that people can communicate and do communicate with the same words, but that they mean different things to different people.

If we all started accepting that most trouble comes from lack of understanding that people all have varying life experiences and perspectives and that ignorance merely means (def: uninstructed, uninformed, unlearned) not evil or unworthy of kindness.

Being broadminded (tolerant) is a good goal.  Is it harder to be broadminded when one has rarely been on the receving end of it, experienced that benefit as a minority? Perhaps, when first allowed the freedom to express that hurt of "being tolerated" (like the poor suffering parents of auties describe). Some human nature comes into play and an aspie may lash out - as turn-about is fair play. ?...

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...the courage to change the things I can, ..and the wisdom to know the difference

Now I see how this will look - I started this post an hour ago and got sidetracked - playing - I started the post and did not read any others.

* ) Not everyone here is a native English speaker ( I am not, for example )

* ) Not everyone has several hours a day to spend on an Internet forum ( I definitely don't, most of the time )


I know you and atypical don't like one another, but such childish remarks (it is regarded as poor manners when you criticise a person's spelling on an Internet forum) tend to illustrate a closed mind, especially when not accompanied by any criticism contentwise as is the case here.

Could you guys please stop fighting in every thread you both are involved in? Could the two of you please stop bitching and start ignoring one another?

@ Korrigan : I'm a pagan myself and I would say your behavior is a pagan unworthy. Atypical said nothing in this thread to provoke you whatsoever, so you should not have provoked him.

I noticed after I posted that there was a couple of back and forth -that seemed very good, then ocampo posted,

So had I read that in advance, this would have been one of them threads that I would not have entered - just in case.  Thought I did not read into your bach and forth with theillusion as a bad back and forth, but I don't know.

I hope I explained okay.

Is there a spell check?

I explained that my kids  are home and I am playing with them in between posting - sorry all, not being lazy, and seriously, the thread is a good one.

And, I thought my last post did have paragraphs and I tried to not have mispellings on that. (I am not a good typist)

I hope to continue the thread:

Well, I didn't want to be so presumptuous to repost one of your posts and was afraid just to post part of mine and be misquoted.  
Are we sure this is the how tolerant are we thread?

Oh bugger, the above was atypical.

You can tell because there are two (or more) typos.  Multi-tasking is not my strong suit.  I was online with one of my sons trying to figure out if he could start a new thread and I peeked into this thread and responded as him.

I am sorry for any and all confusion I cause.

Illusion - I followed the links you provided and that tells me a lot about you - since you put the links there you must pretty closely susbscribe to

I can imagine that identifying yourself as such, many may lump you in with nazi's just because someone metions Germany, and the time frame, when from what your link says it is the opposite.  When I follow links, such as yours -- and others - - I find out how ignorant I am on the many, many interesting subjects there are in our world history and how many different ways there are to classify one's beliefs.  Though none are ever that accurate being as we are all so unique.

Illusion, so are you a person who is tolerant?

Remember people, regardless of what is going on on other threads, some people's typing/writing style, is what it is.

Like RIpley's Believe it or Not...

Illusion, go back to your earlier post, you did type the word inferior, and something about social classes -- were they your words? or were you desribing some background or what? (normally ending in or what, would be rude also).

Illuison, Alot of folks on here are very specific with wording and heck I even read what you wrote back, way early in this thread and thought, man if illusion does not clarify quickly, specifically, clearly, it seemed even to me you were being worse than just a separatist.