Aspies For Freedom

I think if I were surrounded by just aspies I'd probably go nuts. Same with just women, just scientists, just people in their 50s, etc.  I like the different perspectives that folks with diverse experiences bring to the table.

Korrigan...I guess maybe you can't ignore the jerks.  I'm sorry.
Please stay.

This is great parody, Korrigan. And I agree that dishing crap back at innocent people who happen to be part of the same group that has members who have oppressed autistic people is totally unfair and uncalled for, and deserves a report. It's like ocampo said - while a gay person has likely gotten a lot of crap for it from mostly straight people, that doesn't justify going and saying, "I don't like straight people."

Not funny.  Very True, unless you live on an island built of your own delusions.  You *do* live in this world, don't you?  And not in aufinity?

Yes - I've been working my metaphorical balls of trying to come to some consensus on autistic rights issues over the last few days (see NYM) and then I see this, and of course I want to support people who feel rejected by society, but that can mean the NT partners of AS people as much as our young people who have been radicalised by the debate.

Right now - I'm snapping at II, but she needs to move on and help me when I'm out there enduring all sorts of abuse, for me (and Korrigan btw) to help her.  Does anyone thing I'm a plank that can never break?  I have taken on too much in the past and I have broken.  The door swings both ways my friends, and that goes for NT's too if they are not appreciated.  I'm AS but frankly - I'll be very disapointed in certain people if Korrigan leaves.

Thinking?  No - feeling.  Feeling the same god damn neglect as we all feel here at one time or another from some ignorent NT's, and dishing it back out is nothing to celebrate when it comes to a good woman (who isn't ignorent) feeling bad.

Korrigan - she is the 78df[-ppwscf fx Cats mother that has just sat on my keyboard btw.    For the most part - if you feel rejection as an NT then there are plenty of NT's that you can turn to for consolation that will understand.  With a population of people that numbers 1 in 100, then most AS people can't just kick up thier heels and walk out in a sulk.  Here is the only place to go when they feel rejected.  If you feel rejected by a group - you can make a new set of friends.  It's not like that for us.  If it was like that for us, do you think we would've placed quite so much value on your friendship - or be quite as loyal?

Korrigan, whilst you are devoted to your husband and children, you have to keep something aside for you.  You give a lot, but you also need to have that side of your nature that your husband does not understand - nourished.  I think - that is NT friends that you need to see.  You need to foster those again.  It's great that you accept us AS people, but you can't become AS yourself, and you are different with different needs and I think you need to acknowledge that.

And - do as thou would have done to you, is never too much to ask.  

lol.  That's a nice image!  

I make it a rule to believe anyone who types in - gahhh.  

I think the posting of this thread is well overdue; nobody should trash NTs or suggest that we are in some way superior.  

"One of the problems the internet has introduced is that in this electronic village, all the village idiots have internet access."
Peter Nelson

Don’t let the idiots get too you Korrigan.

There's a big difference between venting about a crap experience you've had, and saying "all neurotypical people are stupid/intolernat/bigoted/make me want to scweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeem."

Venting is great.  We all need to vent.  But if that means making blanet statements about every single person with a particular neurological configuration, no, it's not OK.  If you think it's wrong to make statements about how "all Aspies are..."  then you have a responsiblity to NOT make similar statements about NT people.

LOL Nice come back Lucie.

Well said Ethel...I agree wholeheartedly.

Korrigan-
I'm right on the NT/AS border and I understand both worlds fairly well (I inherited an excellent ability to analyze and decipher social situations from my grandpa, but I don't understand things until I have figured them out for myself); I have both NT and AS friends, and both NT and AS enemies; and I have both NT and AS family members.  So, like you, I spend a lot of time on this forum trying to correct misunderstandings about BOTH groups.
But I have learned how to figure out which posters and which threads have gone beyond the point of reason, where it's pointless to continue arguing, and so I often leave threads in the middle after trying to make my point.
Being extremely emotionally sensitive, I have learned when not to engage and when to back down so that I don't let the argument get to the point where it makes me cry.  So if you see me vanish from a conversation, that's why.
Might I suggest that you also adopt a policy of leaving a thread when it becomes too caustic to handle?  It can save you a lot of grief.

Also, taking a break from the forum every now and then is a good idea.  I took a two week long break once, after a very personal flame war between me and another poster, and another week long break after a misunderstanding between myself and another user got really nasty.  Both times it really helped me calm down and regain my composure.

(and, as a side note- I also don't think I could handle being around aspies all the time!  I tend to get along best with "Quirky NTs"- NTs with spectrum traits, or just "odd" NTs- and ADD/ADHD-ers.  I only have one very good friend who is aspie, +my bf/husband is sort of "aspie lite")

I agree it's nothing to celebrate. By "dishing it back out" I was referring to people who bash NTs as a group for the misdeeds of select members from that group. I think this post helps show people that making sweeping prejudiced statements is just as bad as making sweeping prejudiced statements about autistics. While most of us get that point, some people need to be shown just what insults they are inflicting, and the fact that they are inflicting these insults against innocent people.

I mean, imagine that someone in your extended family has done something mean or awful to another family or individual. And then, you actively confront the individual who did the awful thing to the other group. But some loud individuals from the other family say you're just as bad as the person who did the misdeed in the first place, even though you never approved of it and have been calling for justice to be done to the offending person. That's what this is like.

Much like we as a whole shouldn't be condemned for the wrongdoings of a few of us, so NTs shouldn't be blamed as a whole for what a few of them have done or are doing. As I pointed out in another post, a lot of the flak we get comes from structural inequities, and societal prejudices against us. Those are the things to change, and you don't change those things by saying "gosh, I really don't like NTs".

I agree that the first post isn't sweet, or hilarious (or else what's the point). But it makes a point, a damn good one too. And it wouldn't be necessary to make this point in this manner if we as a community and the site admin would take a harsher stance against this kind of badgering of whole groups of people, of whom most members are innocent. Things seem to be turning for the better, from what I've seen of EZ and other site members.

Oh, yeah, I vent all the time (in fact I think so much that I'll start venting to a friend and notice that they really don't want to hear it - I think I do it too much, which is one reason the Internet is great). I vent on AFF, I vent on my blog, and to friends and family. Come to think of it, usually the people I vent about are NT. But I don't write up a blog entry saying, "I've gotten so much crap from NTs, NTs just don't listen and live in their own social little bubbles".

True that some people give me crap, some people just don't listen and some people live in social little fantasy bubbles. But that doesn't give me any right or accuracy to put all NTs into this awful box.

And about generalizations - I agree with EZ that there's a difference between that and outright bigotry, but as bigotry is primarily in generalizations, for clarity's sake I feel compelled to put examples of each.

For instance, there's a huge difference between "NTs have a hard time understanding me" and "NTs are jerks who refuse to understand me".

So anyone who wants to vent, feel free to do it, but you can well vent (even saying pretty scathing, nasty things) without spreading bigotry towards a group. Just because autistics don't have the kind of power to act on this bigotry in a dangerous way doesn't mean it's less wrong than the kind of bigotry that's towards autistics and from people with more power.

While these issues ought to be aggressively attacked by all in this community, I do agree that it is a minority on here who make these kinds of statements (however noisily), and that AFF is going into a good direction towards handling this.