05-27-2008, 02:51 PM
alectrum
05-28-2008, 08:32 AM
The clinical diagnostic criteria of these conditions have no basis in the etiology of them. If the etiology in reality has thousands of different components that make up AS or SZ then it's logical to infer that some people are going to get a mixed bag from the genetic sweetie jar.
07-10-2008, 07:37 AM
I was going to post the same thing, Batman. Sounds more similar to schizotypal.
***
Classic schizotypal personalities are apt to be loners, having few to no intimate relationships. They exhibit extreme anxiety in social situations, often associated more with distrust and an inability to communicate with others than with a negative self-image. They view themselves as alien or forlorn, and this isolation causes pain as they disengage more and more from relationships and the outside world.
People with schizotypal personalities often have odd patterns of speech and ramble endlessly on subjects tangent to a topic of conversation. They may dress in peculiar ways and have very strange ways of viewing the world around them. Often they harbor unusual ideas, such as believing in the powers of ESP or a "sixth sense." At times, they believe they can magically influence people's thoughts, actions and emotions.
In adolescence, signs of a schizotypal personality may begin as a gravitation toward solitary activities or a high level of social anxiety. The child may be an underperformer in school or appear socially out-of-step with peers, and as a result often becomes the subject of bullying or teasing.
Symptoms of schizotypal personality disorder include:
* Incorrect interpretation of events, including feeling that external events have personal meaning
* Peculiar thinking, beliefs or behavior
* Belief in special powers, such as telepathy
* Perceptual alterations, in some cases bodily illusions, including "phantom pains" or other distortions in the sense of touch
* Idiosyncratic speech, such as loose or vague patterns of speaking or tendency to go off on tangents
* Suspicious or paranoid ideas
* Flat emotions or inappropriate emotional responses
* Lack of close friends outside of the immediate family
* Persistent and excessive social anxiety that doesn't abate with time
Schizotypal personality disorder can easily be confused with schizophrenia, which is characterized by intense psychosis, a severe mental state characterized by a loss of contact with reality. While schizotypal personalities may experience brief psychotic episodes with delusions or hallucinations, they are not as pronounced, frequent or intense as in schizophrenia.
Both disorders, along with schizoid personality disorder, belong to what's generally referred to as the "schizophrenic spectrum." Schizotypal personality falls in the middle of the spectrum, with schizoid personality disorder on the milder end and schizophrenia on the more severe end.
***
Classic schizotypal personalities are apt to be loners, having few to no intimate relationships. They exhibit extreme anxiety in social situations, often associated more with distrust and an inability to communicate with others than with a negative self-image. They view themselves as alien or forlorn, and this isolation causes pain as they disengage more and more from relationships and the outside world.
People with schizotypal personalities often have odd patterns of speech and ramble endlessly on subjects tangent to a topic of conversation. They may dress in peculiar ways and have very strange ways of viewing the world around them. Often they harbor unusual ideas, such as believing in the powers of ESP or a "sixth sense." At times, they believe they can magically influence people's thoughts, actions and emotions.
In adolescence, signs of a schizotypal personality may begin as a gravitation toward solitary activities or a high level of social anxiety. The child may be an underperformer in school or appear socially out-of-step with peers, and as a result often becomes the subject of bullying or teasing.
Symptoms of schizotypal personality disorder include:
* Incorrect interpretation of events, including feeling that external events have personal meaning
* Peculiar thinking, beliefs or behavior
* Belief in special powers, such as telepathy
* Perceptual alterations, in some cases bodily illusions, including "phantom pains" or other distortions in the sense of touch
* Idiosyncratic speech, such as loose or vague patterns of speaking or tendency to go off on tangents
* Suspicious or paranoid ideas
* Flat emotions or inappropriate emotional responses
* Lack of close friends outside of the immediate family
* Persistent and excessive social anxiety that doesn't abate with time
Schizotypal personality disorder can easily be confused with schizophrenia, which is characterized by intense psychosis, a severe mental state characterized by a loss of contact with reality. While schizotypal personalities may experience brief psychotic episodes with delusions or hallucinations, they are not as pronounced, frequent or intense as in schizophrenia.
Both disorders, along with schizoid personality disorder, belong to what's generally referred to as the "schizophrenic spectrum." Schizotypal personality falls in the middle of the spectrum, with schizoid personality disorder on the milder end and schizophrenia on the more severe end.
07-10-2008, 07:51 AM
For quite a while there has been a movement to get rid of the label 'schizophrenia' altogether on the grounds that it is a meaningless umbrella term for a wide variety of essentially different disorders:
BBC 10th October 2006
Schizophrenia term use 'invalid'
The term schizophrenia should be abolished, experts have said.
They claim the category falsely groups a wide range of symptoms and encourages over-reliance on anti-psychotic drugs rather than psychological intervention.
The academics also said the label stigmatised people as being violent, dangerous and untreatable.
But other scientists said the term should not be scrapped without finding another means of classifying patients with psychosis.
Schizophrenia represents a complex mental health disorder. Symptoms vary from person to person, but include delusions, hallucinations and disordered perceptions of reality.
It is estimated that one in 100 people will develop schizophrenia at some point in their lifetime.
But experts, speaking on the eve of World Mental Health Day, are calling for the term to be scrapped.
Richard Bentall, professor of experimental clinical psychology, from the University of Manchester, said: "We do not doubt there are people who have distressing experiences such as hearing voices or paranoid fears.
"But the concept of schizophrenia is scientifically meaningless. It groups together a whole range of different problems under one label - the assumption is that all of these people with all of these different problems have the same brain disease."
He said this can misinform treatment, and has encouraged the widespread use of "drastic biomedical interventions" as the first-line of treatment, rather than psychological help.
Although drugs were useful for some patients, too often they were given at extremely high doses and had some dangerous side-effects.
Professor Bentall said: "Overall, I think the concept is scientifically meaningless, clinically unhelpful and ultimately has been damaging to patients."
Stigmatising patients
Paul Hammersley, also of the University of Manchester, who is involved with the Campaign to Abolish the Schizophrenia Label (Castle), wants the term dropped.
He said: "It is associated with violence, dangerousness, unpredictability, inability to recover, constant illness, constant need for medication and an inability to work. I cannot emphasise enough how stigmatising this label is."
But the academics could not give a definitive answer to what should replace the term schizophrenia if it was eliminated.
They pointed to Japan, where the category schizophrenia was replaced with "integrated disorder" in 2004, as a possible model.
And Professor Bentall suggested patients should be treated on the basis of individual symptoms, as opposed to an overarching category.
Robin Murray, professor of psychiatry at the Institute of Psychiatry, London, said most psychiatrists accepted term schizophrenia was imperfect but warned that were it discarded another method of classification must be devised.
He said: "If we don't have some way of distinguishing between patients, then those with bipolar disorder or obsessional disorder would be mixed up with those currently diagnosed as having schizophrenia and might receive treatments wholly inappropriate for them.
"Most psychiatrists would still agree that the term schizophrenia is a useful, if provisional, concept. My personal preference would be to replace the unpleasant term schizophrenia with dopamine dysregulation disorder which more accurately reflects what is happening in the brain when someone is psychotic. "
Til Wykes, professor of clinical psychology and rehabilitation at the Institute Of Psychiatry, said: "We should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water, as despite its limitations, a diagnosis can help people access much needed services.
"What all of us have to remember is that these are people with a diagnosis of schizophrenia, not 'the schizophrenic'."
Marjorie Wallace, chief executive of the mental health charity SANE, said: "While we recognise that the term 'schizophrenia' can act as a stigmatising label, without identifying this condition as a serious illness how can there be any hope of researching it and providing better treatments?
"Simply replacing the term with another is unlikely to add to our understanding of this complex condition."
BBC 10th October 2006
BBC News Wrote:
Schizophrenia term use 'invalid'
The term schizophrenia should be abolished, experts have said.
They claim the category falsely groups a wide range of symptoms and encourages over-reliance on anti-psychotic drugs rather than psychological intervention.
The academics also said the label stigmatised people as being violent, dangerous and untreatable.
But other scientists said the term should not be scrapped without finding another means of classifying patients with psychosis.
Quote:
"I think the concept is scientifically meaningless, clinically unhelpful and ultimately has been damaging to patients"
Richard Bentall
Richard Bentall
Schizophrenia represents a complex mental health disorder. Symptoms vary from person to person, but include delusions, hallucinations and disordered perceptions of reality.
It is estimated that one in 100 people will develop schizophrenia at some point in their lifetime.
But experts, speaking on the eve of World Mental Health Day, are calling for the term to be scrapped.
Richard Bentall, professor of experimental clinical psychology, from the University of Manchester, said: "We do not doubt there are people who have distressing experiences such as hearing voices or paranoid fears.
"But the concept of schizophrenia is scientifically meaningless. It groups together a whole range of different problems under one label - the assumption is that all of these people with all of these different problems have the same brain disease."
He said this can misinform treatment, and has encouraged the widespread use of "drastic biomedical interventions" as the first-line of treatment, rather than psychological help.
Although drugs were useful for some patients, too often they were given at extremely high doses and had some dangerous side-effects.
Professor Bentall said: "Overall, I think the concept is scientifically meaningless, clinically unhelpful and ultimately has been damaging to patients."
Stigmatising patients
Paul Hammersley, also of the University of Manchester, who is involved with the Campaign to Abolish the Schizophrenia Label (Castle), wants the term dropped.
He said: "It is associated with violence, dangerousness, unpredictability, inability to recover, constant illness, constant need for medication and an inability to work. I cannot emphasise enough how stigmatising this label is."
But the academics could not give a definitive answer to what should replace the term schizophrenia if it was eliminated.
They pointed to Japan, where the category schizophrenia was replaced with "integrated disorder" in 2004, as a possible model.
And Professor Bentall suggested patients should be treated on the basis of individual symptoms, as opposed to an overarching category.
Quote:
"We should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water"
Professor Til Wykes
Professor Til Wykes
Robin Murray, professor of psychiatry at the Institute of Psychiatry, London, said most psychiatrists accepted term schizophrenia was imperfect but warned that were it discarded another method of classification must be devised.
He said: "If we don't have some way of distinguishing between patients, then those with bipolar disorder or obsessional disorder would be mixed up with those currently diagnosed as having schizophrenia and might receive treatments wholly inappropriate for them.
"Most psychiatrists would still agree that the term schizophrenia is a useful, if provisional, concept. My personal preference would be to replace the unpleasant term schizophrenia with dopamine dysregulation disorder which more accurately reflects what is happening in the brain when someone is psychotic. "
Til Wykes, professor of clinical psychology and rehabilitation at the Institute Of Psychiatry, said: "We should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water, as despite its limitations, a diagnosis can help people access much needed services.
"What all of us have to remember is that these are people with a diagnosis of schizophrenia, not 'the schizophrenic'."
Marjorie Wallace, chief executive of the mental health charity SANE, said: "While we recognise that the term 'schizophrenia' can act as a stigmatising label, without identifying this condition as a serious illness how can there be any hope of researching it and providing better treatments?
"Simply replacing the term with another is unlikely to add to our understanding of this complex condition."
07-11-2008, 12:32 AM
I am an Aspie with many of the traits of schizoid personality disorder.
Schizoid personality disorder does not have much to do with schizophrenia, though schizophrenia in its prodromal stage may look a little like schizoid personality disorder. Schizotypal PD has a connection with schizophrenia and is thought by some to be a very mild form of schizophrenia which does not impair functioning or cause distress except as a result of social isolation.
Schizoid PD is a sort of extreme-loner personality. Like all the personality disorders, it is a life-long, pervasive pattern of behavior and emotion. Unlike the other personality disorders, schizoid PD does not cause distress either for the person who has it or, usually, for those around him; and as a result many psychologists believe it does not qualify as a true mental illness but as an extreme personality profile.
Here's why Schizoid PD is not a true mental illness.
Diagnostic criteria: Match four or more of these seven. (I match exactly four: 1, 2, 3, and 5.)
Schizoid personality disorder does not have much to do with schizophrenia, though schizophrenia in its prodromal stage may look a little like schizoid personality disorder. Schizotypal PD has a connection with schizophrenia and is thought by some to be a very mild form of schizophrenia which does not impair functioning or cause distress except as a result of social isolation.
Schizoid PD is a sort of extreme-loner personality. Like all the personality disorders, it is a life-long, pervasive pattern of behavior and emotion. Unlike the other personality disorders, schizoid PD does not cause distress either for the person who has it or, usually, for those around him; and as a result many psychologists believe it does not qualify as a true mental illness but as an extreme personality profile.
Here's why Schizoid PD is not a true mental illness.
Diagnostic criteria: Match four or more of these seven. (I match exactly four: 1, 2, 3, and 5.)
Quote:
1. neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family
2. almost always chooses solitary activities
3. has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person
4. takes pleasure in few, if any, activities
5. lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
6. appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others
7. shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affectivity
2. almost always chooses solitary activities
3. has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person
4. takes pleasure in few, if any, activities
5. lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
6. appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others
7. shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affectivity
Only #4 could be considered to be at all troublesome--but you could have one obsessive special interest and still qualify because you don't enjoy anything else. Most of the rest is a matter of showing little emotion and few social connections.
Quote:
B. Does not occur exclusively during the course of schizophrenia, a mood disorder with psychotic features, another psychotic disorder, or a pervasive developmental disorder and is not due to the direct physiological effects of a general medical condition.
Here's why I (and any other Aspie) doesn't qualify as schizoid PD--because having Asperger's automatically disqualifies us from also having this particular personality disorder. The only possible exception would be someone who had been social-but-clumsy in childhood and adolescence, but withdrew from society afterwards--and even then a better explanation would be an episode of depression, which is the most likely cause for a formerly social person withdrawing into isolation.
However, "Asperger's with schizoid traits" is highly possible. Those of us who are not strongly motivated to interact with other people tend to be warned off by failing at it whenever we try--leading to the conclusion that a solitary life is better and happier. Add to that asexuality and a tendency not to express emotions, and you have someone who would present with a textbook case of schizoid personality--if he weren't also autistic.
07-11-2008, 02:32 AM
I don't think it's a disorder. But yes.
07-11-2008, 02:34 PM
There's three personality disorders that can lead to social avoidance. Important to distinguish between them when discussing them:
Schizoid personality disorder: Low emotional expression, no desire to form friendships or intimate relationships. Stereotypic "loner".
Schizotypal personality disorder: Eccentric thought and speech, odd ideas, superstition. Social isolation generally results from paranoid beliefs (ie, fear of persecution of some sort).
Avoidant personality disorder: Extreme fear of rejection, low self-esteem. Avoids social situations because of fears of embarrassment and a belief that he is socially inept and generally unlikeable.
In someone whose only diagnosis is the personality disorder (who is not also autistic), these personality types have nothing to do with the actual level of social skills, except perhaps through lack of practice resulting from long-term avoidance.
Schizoid personality disorder: Low emotional expression, no desire to form friendships or intimate relationships. Stereotypic "loner".
Schizotypal personality disorder: Eccentric thought and speech, odd ideas, superstition. Social isolation generally results from paranoid beliefs (ie, fear of persecution of some sort).
Avoidant personality disorder: Extreme fear of rejection, low self-esteem. Avoids social situations because of fears of embarrassment and a belief that he is socially inept and generally unlikeable.
In someone whose only diagnosis is the personality disorder (who is not also autistic), these personality types have nothing to do with the actual level of social skills, except perhaps through lack of practice resulting from long-term avoidance.
07-11-2008, 02:42 PM
Oh, never mind, there are four, actually:
Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder: Extremely rigid lifestyle. Preoccupied with schedules, lists, etc.; can hoard money or things; overly conscientious. Stereotypical perfectionist. Social isolation results from extreme devotion to work or some other responsibility.
OCPD is not obsessive-compulsive disorder, which is an anxiety disorder involving obsessive thought and/or compulsive actions, though the two can occur in the same person.
Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder: Extremely rigid lifestyle. Preoccupied with schedules, lists, etc.; can hoard money or things; overly conscientious. Stereotypical perfectionist. Social isolation results from extreme devotion to work or some other responsibility.
OCPD is not obsessive-compulsive disorder, which is an anxiety disorder involving obsessive thought and/or compulsive actions, though the two can occur in the same person.
07-12-2008, 10:03 PM
They have to be careful with those questions, if they're asking it of a literal minded person. I remember being asked, "Do you ever hear voices?" and answering, "Yes, of course, my hearing is good," before I realized the man was referring to hallucinations and having to add, "but only when people are speaking."
07-12-2008, 10:29 PM
You can have both; they're bound to overlap sometime.
Maybe the "eccentric person" genes tend to group up in the same families? After all, a "weird" schizotypal person might be more attractive or more attracted to an Aspie than a more average personality.
Maybe the "eccentric person" genes tend to group up in the same families? After all, a "weird" schizotypal person might be more attractive or more attracted to an Aspie than a more average personality.
07-14-2008, 09:39 PM
Some schizophrenics are autistic before getting schizophrenia.
With adult-onset schiz (which I'm assuming is what your father has) it's no more common in autistics than non-autistics, but schiz affects 1 out of 100 people anyway so it would also affect 1 out of 100 autistics.
Childhood-onset schizophrenia is much rarer, but autistics are more prone to it. However, only one out of 10,000 people have childhood-onset schiz. About a third of childhood schizophrenics were autistic before their first episode, so if you take the estimate I found somewhere that 1 out of 100 people is autistic, about 1 out of 3,000 autistics have child-onset schizophrenia.
With adult-onset schiz (which I'm assuming is what your father has) it's no more common in autistics than non-autistics, but schiz affects 1 out of 100 people anyway so it would also affect 1 out of 100 autistics.
Childhood-onset schizophrenia is much rarer, but autistics are more prone to it. However, only one out of 10,000 people have childhood-onset schiz. About a third of childhood schizophrenics were autistic before their first episode, so if you take the estimate I found somewhere that 1 out of 100 people is autistic, about 1 out of 3,000 autistics have child-onset schizophrenia.
07-15-2008, 05:47 AM
Schizophrenia tends to be episodic, though. You get the positive symptoms (the delusion/hallucination/confusion bit) for a while; and then they go away leaving you with just the negative stuff (avolition, exec. dysfunction, etc.) or, if you're lucky, both positive and negative symptoms go for a while (or permanently, in a minority of people)... The meds unfortunately treat only the positive symptoms, which is what makes schizophrenia so disabling. The guy who develops something to treat the negative symptoms too will make a fortune--and allow many people to return to the work force. As it is, 1/3rd of cases of schizophrenia will still allow the person to work, and another third allow independent living but not work. Uhh... Also, I have no idea where I got those statistics--probably my psychology class last year, but I'm too lazy to dig out my notes... Anyway, the point is that schizophrenia is bad news, but people do live with it... Oh, and the type that's got the best prognosis? Paranoid schizophrenia. Turns out a confused mind recovers much less easily than a paranoid one...
07-16-2008, 12:08 PM
I am very interested in the overlap between autism, schizophrenia and schizoid personality disorder. Childhood schizophrenia was not finally separated from autism until the 1970s. A few months ago I did a keyword search of the online archives of the American Journal of Psychiatry (http://www.ajp.psychiatryonline.org/archive ) with the following results:
Childhood schizophrenia 14,622 articles found.
Early infantile autism 18,444 articles found.
That site has abstracts of all articles published in the American Journal of Psychiatry and its predecessor journal since July 1844. An article published in the May 1944 issue has the title Schizophrenia in a four-year-old boy.
Studies over the last hundred years have consistently shown that about 10 percent of people have heard imaginary voices. I have occasionally heard voices when I've been half asleep.
Childhood schizophrenia 14,622 articles found.
Early infantile autism 18,444 articles found.
That site has abstracts of all articles published in the American Journal of Psychiatry and its predecessor journal since July 1844. An article published in the May 1944 issue has the title Schizophrenia in a four-year-old boy.
Studies over the last hundred years have consistently shown that about 10 percent of people have heard imaginary voices. I have occasionally heard voices when I've been half asleep.
07-16-2008, 05:46 PM
If I were born earlier, I probably would have been diagnosed with schizophrenia. I talk to myself sometimes when nobody is around. I used to have lots of imaginary friends. My synesthesia is so strong, I literally fell in love with numbers. I was very particular about the numbers I loved. Some I have claimed to hate, because they were "bad guys" that terrorized my "good guys." Even thought I knew my imagination wasn't real, I acted as if it were, so many of my peers were *** scared of me. Luckily though, the psychologist knew what was going on, so he didn't think that I was crazy.
07-17-2008, 08:41 PM
Yes, medicating schizophrenia is a difficult business. On one hand, the medications are usually the only way you can function without getting totally confused or delusional; on the other hand there can be strong side effects that keep you from functioning, period. It really takes a skilled doctor to adjust the medications well (most patients don't get this because most simply aren't rich enough). It's not all Haldol nowadays; the newer atypical antipsychotics aren't nearly as troublesome; but it's still a touchy business--avoiding over-medicating and still controlling symptoms...