Aspies For Freedom

Did something in particular happen, Korrigan?
Everyone has some quirks and oddities. Nobody is totally wholly neurotypical.
I like it that you're here. And you should definitely say what you think. If somebody doesn't like it....well....so they don't. I've seen some people here become unhappy or upset if somebody disagrees with them. But intelligent people disagree all the time.

Korrigan Wrote:

First of all, I would like to apologize for the possible upset this post could cause. I am, for some weird reason, a little emotional about this post, and my words are not as well thought out and logical as I normally try to make them before I post. (Editing a lot. Smile

)

I have to tell ya folks, I am suffering a little frustration here.  I am feeling like there is such a line drawn on the forum sometimes, between the NT and the AS.

As you all know, I came here to learn.  I remain here, because I have made friends here, because I enjoy the conversation, and because I want to work to advocate for changes in the understanding of what it means to be Autistic.

But I do have a lot of frustration dealing with the threads about how separate we are, the NTs and the Aspies.  About how the NTs are so terrible and how we will never understand anyone here.

I feel, well, like I should be ashamed to be NT.

The thing that bothers me about this, honestly, is that I think that the continuing actions that drive a line down the middle between NT people and people on the spectrum is what will, essentially, divide and conquer.

Unless the NT population, which I have read seems to be the "majority" of people in the world, learns to understand that the Autistic population are NOT a bunch of "retards" or "people who cannot survive in the social world" or "people who will never live 'normal' lives" there will be no way to be able to get rid of the incorrect thoughts of the people who want to "cure."  The people who want to make you fit into the box that society has dealt us all.  The people who want to find out what caused you to be so different and "fix you."

IMHO, It will be the lack of understanding that will make the cause fail.

At the same time, I know there needs to be a place for you all to "vent" but as DogBrain said (who I tend to disagree with a lot, but man oh man does he have some insightful things to say some of the time), "Whether it is venting or an actual boiler explosion, superheated steam still burns the poor victim it's being directed against."

In this case, I am the one experiencing the pain from the vent.  I am not sure what purpose my post will end up serving, but I wanted to get my thoughts out there, as a contributor to the forum, who really likes the people here, and wants to hang around.

Not all NT people are bad.  Really.  Some of us love you guys.

In the immortal words of Buckethead, I come in peace.

Frankly, I don't think that any two groups of humans are really all that different, it's a pernicious fiction that people latch onto in their search for identity and end up taking way too seriously. It seems so few people can just be living creatures. I could be a better person myself in this way. I have done some rotten things in the search for identity. Or at least said some rotten things, but I fear the type of person who might have read them and believed them. The only answer I can see is better education for all.

ethereal Wrote:

This aspie supremism thing disgusts me, it's that kind of attitude that starts wars.

National Aspergerists. The way some of them talk about breeding, it's like reading about fascism, except it's happening right in front of me.

Anyways, it's five AM and I have work at two in the afternoon, so I must off.

I also love this post. Smile

I am in the position of being "too NT" to have experienced a lot of what the other members talk about. I have no sensory overloads, I have never had speech problems, I was socially clueless as a child but have become (over decades of reading psychology stuff and constantly mulling things over) very insightful about people's behavior. (Having worked in the same place for 20 years and having observed the same people day in and day out, through all their moods and developments, has been a big help.) On the other hand I am still considered odd and feel I am lacking in the "full package" of NT emotional responses. Most strikingly I get no benefit from being touched and I seem not to form "normal" attachments...as cold as it sounds, even if I am fond of someone, I can "take or leave" them; my real emotional life is in my imagination. So I don't fully belong on either side of the (perceived) divide. Thanks, Korrigan, for posting this...I personally am happy to have NT members like you here, and now that I think about it, I realize I have as much to learn from you as I do from members who have more autistic traits than I do.

I should add that the odd traits I have mentioned are not necessarily autistic...the psychologist who diagnosed me wavered between AS and schizoid personality, and I am not sure even now what label best fits me, if any. So I don't claim to represent any specific neurotype; I am just myself. Smile

(Although I do have some classic stims! *happily rocks to music* Cool

)

Korrigan - you felt pain and hurt when you saw words that made you feel excluded, and you told us about how felt.

I wonder about the person who wrote the words that upset you. I wonder what drove them to post those words. Did their words come from a background of rejection and hurt?

I think understanding of where people are coming from, understanding what it is that drives them in terms of their attitudes and feelings - I think when we can understand this, it might help us to feel less hurt.

I imagine the person whose words hurt you --- may have felt hurt and less than acceptable by some of the comments made in this thread.

Just expressing a thought - that I am sure you acknowledge Korrigan.

Daisy May - you have a very pretty name.

Korrigan - tomorrow I want to ask you for your perspective on something. Your NT perspective - because without it I won't understand something that happened to me fully. In the meantime - I hope you find my comments on the 'aspies unintentionally offending NT's' thread, useful.

And - you have my respect because you want to understand, even if frustrated, and I don't think you'll play the blame game with us. I need a handle on something as much as you do and I think we share a common frustration from different perspectives.

BardWolf Wrote:

*again doesn't jump on the big hug bandwagon*

I've come to understand that this place is sorta of collective of Autistic bitterness. Either you're a bitter NT parent with Aspie/Autie child that wants some **** answers, or want the school system to STFU and solve a problem so your kid can get the help he needs.

or a Autie/Aspie (as far as you can tell us, weither you really are or not is up to the users that read your posts) that is so **** fed up and bitter and have to find a place where they can complain/piss/moan and ***.

In all we can be real douches here not just to the NT community but anyone that doesn't **** fit with the program, That can be everyone, Aspies/Parents/Teachers/Family/Lovers the Pope you name it. We're so bitter and and angry at something or someone that in our frustration we tend to vent and rant about people that try to understand us.

Not all NTs are awful.

but a good plenty of them Piss the *** of us off

Lol. Understanding can be so **** difficult - for all of us. We all want to understand each other but in real life it can seem like we pass each other like ships in the dark. the odd honk - you know?

Things are rarely how they seem. Some people look, look, look again. Some just look. That cuts across AS and NT lines as well.

BardWolf Wrote:

alectrum Wrote:

BardWolf Wrote:

*again doesn't jump on the big hug bandwagon*

I've come to understand that this place is sorta of collective of Autistic bitterness. Either you're a bitter NT parent with Aspie/Autie child that wants some **** answers, or want the school system to STFU and solve a problem so your kid can get the help he needs.

or a Autie/Aspie (as far as you can tell us, weither you really are or not is up to the users that read your posts) that is so **** fed up and bitter and have to find a place where they can complain/piss/moan and ***.

In all we can be real douches here not just to the NT community but anyone that doesn't **** fit with the program, That can be everyone, Aspies/Parents/Teachers/Family/Lovers the Pope you name it. We're so bitter and and angry at something or someone that in our frustration we tend to vent and rant about people that try to understand us.

Not all NTs are awful.

but a good plenty of them Piss the *** of us off

Lol. Understanding can be so **** difficult - for all of us. We all want to understand each other but in real life it can seem like we pass each other like ships in the dark. the odd honk - you know?

Things are rarely how they seem. Some people look, look, look again. Some just look. That cuts across AS and NT lines as well.

I think a lot of us want the misunderstanding so we can fuel for something to complain about

Some of us. Some of NT's. Martyrs - *thinks of mother and is temped to yawn* I've never been one to stand in the corner.

The last may be true Korrigan, but you have to remember that many of us are isolated (which is why the aufinity thread is such a long and popular one), and sometimes we need to get long held stressors off our chest before we can move on to a more enlightened perspective and get to grips with the problems of being a very small minority in a very big and tempestuous sea.

Nothing stronger? It's getting late Wink

I have a wonderful NT mother and sister. I agree that it's not right to have this kind of division. I usually use NT as short for "not autistic, or relatedly neurologically atypical". I don't think that aside from that the label has any use.

It's like, the psychologist was telling my mother that he thinks I fit Autistic Disorder rather than Asperger Disorder and my mom and dad both said to me later that they thought it was absurd that he even cared about what particular diagnostic label (which I agree with). It's times like these that I realize that the people working in special services are sometimes "in a world of their own" and "utterly lack theory of mind". That's not an NT thing, or my mother would've been on his side. No, it's more like a STRUCTURAL FLAW thing.

But yeah, someone comes around here bashing NTs, and I'll get out my INVISIBLE NUNCHUCKS!

i think there is no such thing as a neurotipical.

I’ll give my two cents to the argument.

Over my time here, I’ve brought up the whole issues of NT-bashing, NT/AS-division, among others, several times. And I’ve noticed that those here who feed into such things don’t really seem too terribly fervent about these things. It’s almost as if they do this simply for the opportunity to pick on someone, or because its expected of them.
And for people who are supposed to be inherently logical, I’m amazed how often I see Aspies abandon logic in favor of Ad-Hominen, Ad-Verecundium (That’s personal attacks and appeals to authority) arguments, along with just plain magical thinking.

Take atypical’s recent comment for instance.

atypical Wrote:

so very little is actually known about brains - except that we humasn only use a small percentage of our brains.

Where is your evidence for this? And please, don’t refer to any ‘urban legend’, ‘mysterious source’ or a supposed ‘expert’. Instead, refer to a study -preferably peer reviewed- that I can look up myself to see evidence, unfiltered, that human beings in general use less than all of our brains.
I’d bet money that you won’t be able to do it.

All of this has led me to the startling and sometimes unwanted conclusion that Aspies and NTs aren’t as different as either group would, in general, like to believe, at least in terms or irrationality.

That was absolutely amazing! It was the last response I ever expected to get.
Not only did you recant your statement, but you thoroughly convinced me that it was nothing more than a slip of a tongue. And when it comes to evidence, you went into far greater detail and rummaging than I ever would in similar circumstances.
You sir, are a scientist.

energeia

ConLang

ConLang

couldbecousin

couldbecousin

Lucie1

alectrum

alectrum

alectrum

alectrum

alectrum

earthmonkey

blue sky

WatsonSword

WatsonSword