Aspies For Freedom

Full Version: sociopaths
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Why do you have guilt - if you don't care what others think of you, where does the guilt come from?


Separate issue - I can't imagine a sociopath ever experiencing guilt.
Having said that - I don't understand much about sociopath.

Doesn't dogbrain like Chosen one??? He seems angry.
sorry - should have said - you seem angry dogbrain.

no offence meant to anyone.

M Wrote:
...
I also want to know how to tell if someone is a sociopath when first meeting them.


That's what everyone wants (apart from the sociopath, of course). But obviously it's quite difficult.

Here's an excerpt from a police manual which was online (here's the new link, hopefully) in march 2007:

Quote:
Interrogating the psychopath (Part 1)
Dr. Dorothy McCoy  Stress-Busters (Your Back-up)
Interrogating the psychopath (Part 1)
Why should you become familiar with psychopaths? They have an unfortunate tendency to commit crimes.
Recently, psychopathy was measured in a sample of sex offenders serving sentences in a mental institution in Massachusetts. Researchers Dr. R. A. Prentky and Dr. R. A. Knight reported that the incidence of psychopathy was 25 percent in a pedophile sample and 40 percent in a rapist sample. The relationship between psychopathy and sex offending therefore has important assessment and treatment implications. Researchers have only recently turned to this important area for investigation (Peters, R & Barbaree, H).
Now, let's talk about how you interview the psychopath after you have identified him or her the last two articles concentrated on identification.
To enhance rapport-building skills, law enforcement personnel should practice facial expressions, body language, and verbal responses that will encourage and relax the subject. It is important to convey understanding and willingness to listen, to give the subject "license" to talk, to vent.
Because the psychopath generally has above average intelligence, is cunning, and can often outsmart others, it would be detrimental to take a premature approach to this interview.
The interrogator must be thoroughly familiar with the case. An experienced interrogator is needed. One that will not react emotionally to whatever the subject might say. Professional attire is necessary so that a sense of authority, a commanding presence will be communicated. For at least the beginning of the interview, address the subject by using a title of respect such as Mr. or Ms. It is better to ask open-ended questions so that the subject is given plenty of opportunity to talk.
Psychopaths like to be the center of attention. They know they are smart and will want others to know that as well. If they are caught in a discrepancy, they will probably disregard or ignore it and continue. They may attempt to shock the interrogator and, if cornered, may attack verbally or become emotional.
The interviewer should act as though he or she is learning from the subject. If given the information and asked for their opinion, they may give evidence or even confess, though this confession may be in the third person. These clever individuals may be able to see through a bluff, so if this tactic is used, great care must be taken. Psychopaths may do well on polygraph tests and may even convince the interviewer of their innocence.
It can be very difficult, even for professionals, to differentiate between a narcissistic individual and a psychopath. There is no reason he cannot be both. Not to mention INTJs (see last month's article).
Much like the psychopath is the narcissistic personality. Interview tactics are similar. This individual likes to be noticed and wants to be center-stage. Professional attire is recommended because the subject will perceive that they are speaking with someone as important as they are. They respond well to compliments and like to be told they are important, that they are intelligent, that they have the ability to carry out the crime. Ask them for their side. This will keep them talking.
Make comments that show understanding and positively re-enforce their participation in the interview with words and gestures. They are very concerned with looking good and want to be perceived in a positive light, but will also want to know what is in it for them. If cornered, there may be crocodile tears and emotional theatrics. Don't criticize. Even the smallest perceived slight may cause the interview to veer off course. It is advised to review the information about the case with the subject. Then ask for his or her slant on it.
Ask, "What would you do?" or, "Can you help me figure this out?" These techniques should get results. It sounds like Colombo, doesn't it. Again, they are normally intelligent individuals.
If you are not certain how to handle the interview, your police psychologist may be able to help you. If you are unsure of yourself they will detect it. Never doubt it, they are supremely self-assured. If you are not careful you will end up loaning your car to him or her ... they are exceptionally convincing.
Psychopath or an INTJ who's gone to the dark side (Part 2)
Last time we began the series on psychopaths. If you simply follow the checklist (below) you may have a poor scholarly, professor-type, the INTJ, by mistake. Although INTJs (Myers-Briggs personality Type profile) share some of the same characteristics as the psychopath, the appearance of shallow emotions and an idiosyncratic value system, especially as it applies to sexuality, they are not normally psychopaths.

Whereas, psychopaths have very sallow emotions, INTJs appear to be unemotional. Actually, they can be hypersensitive on some levels, especially with the few people about whom they care. They are not as responsive to praise or criticism as some of the other personality types. They show the world a veneer of calm self-confidence, which can be mistaken for arrogance (I am being generous here).

INTJs tend to be introspective, more at home with theories and principles than human relationships. They have an endearing tendency to look at one over their glasses or raise one eyebrow to show disapproval. They make up about one percent of the population. INTJs are quite often highly educated, successful individuals, because they can be unusually intelligent. Though, they are not particularly interested in accumulating wealth. Let's compare the two, psychopaths and INTJs:

The INTJ:
Doing things to excess (i.e., exercising, dieting)
Can have a idiosyncratic value system, especially around sexuality (They may use sex to humiliate themselves or to show profound caring)
Act impulsively, especially under pressure
Very Sensitive to Criticism (at times with certain people)
Pursue Ideas that are unrealistic
Appear cold and shallow
Appear unsympathetic
Enjoy change, challenge, and variety
Single minded, stubborn

  The Psychopath;
Selfish
Callous
Accomplished liars
Con artists
Remorseless
Irresponsible
Inflated sense of worth
Unstable
Shallow emotions (though they may try to appear as if they have genuine emotions)
Risk taker
Diviant lifestyle
Parasitic
Anti-social
Unrealistic goals
Needs excitement
Promiscuous
If you look at the two lists you will notice many similarities. Some similarities are in appearance only. INTJs can be very caring people, yet appear unsympathetic. When you bring the "coldness "to their attention, they seem to be surprised. One of the most caring individuals I know is an INTJ physician (Hello, Curtis).

Why is it important to understand which type you have? The psychopath will come into contact with the criminal justice system because he or she is impulsive, amoral, opportunistic and irresponsible. INTJs are impulsive under stress. However, they are more likely to shoot themselves in the foot (figuratively speaking, folks) than shoot their maiden aunt to acquire her fortune. Remember, most INTJs are not dazzled by material possessions. Though, I have seen a few who liked their toys. They may quit their job when their feathers are ruffled, without wondering how they will pay the bills. INTJs can also be highly insulted if someone dares question their ideas or principles, because they are convinced of the "rightness" of their beliefs. Yawn. Nonetheless, they probably will not bury their Nemesis in the backyard. It is much more likely that crimes will be committed by psychopaths.

To tell you the truth, sometimes I have trouble deciding to which category a person (usually a male) belongs. To further complicate matters one can belong to both categories. There is no law that says a psychopath cannot be an INTJ. However, I would be surprised if that were the case. INTJs are normally boringly responsible individuals. Consequently, if you have someone with a spotty employment record, he is probably not an INTJ...start wondering about psychopath. Be cautious, one trait does not a psychopath make.

Try to learn about the individual in several areas. Learn his/her history, this is especially important in making a "diagnosis". You may want to ask for help from your psychologist or an ENFP. An ENFP is brilliantly perceptive and will spot a phony a mile off. Unfortunately, she will then fall in love and try to rescue him. My advice? Use male ENFPs. Kidding, only kidding, please do not write to me. You have your checklist--use it. The traits I have listed for INTJs are a gross generalization. INTJs are individuals with unique characteristics; none will conform exactly to the list. The idiosyncratic sexuality value system is seen in a small minority of INTJs. I can only think of one who exhibits that characteristic from the numerous professor types I know. Let me suggest that you take the test and learn your Myers-Briggs Personality type and what it means.
Was Count Dracula a psychopath? (Part 3)
First, "Psychopath" is no longer listed as a diagnosis in the bible of the mental health profession (DSM IV). However, I will use that term, because most of us are familiar with it. One writer described psychopaths as "soulless beings." This description conjures up images of long white fangs, a deathly pale complexion and a black opera cape. Unfortunately, psychopaths look just like the rest of us, in fact, they are often considered quite attractive.
Dr. Hervey Cleckley wrote a book ("The Mask of Sanity") describing them in 1941; it was later updated, but is no longer in print. Dr. Cleckley uses adjectives and terms such as, likeable, charming, intelligent, great success with the ladies, and on the other side, he says they are irresponsible and self-destructive. Dr. Cleckley is a master of understatement.

  It is unlikely that you will ever suspect or arrest a "successful psychopath." They are extremely intelligent and often highly educated. You will encounter their less gifted brothers and sisters (many more men are represented in the prison population).
What makes them different than the usual run of the mill criminal? They have no conscience. Their emotions are shallow and egocentric. Other human beings are simply props for their performance. They find it impossible to understand how someone feels, to empathize. You are apt to find a psychopath in a boardroom, pool hall, classroom teaching college, prison, operating room or Sunday school class. They adapt well, considering their emotional limitations, and can be found in all socio-economic and educational levels.
No matter where you might find one you can be certain he will be leaving misery, bewilderment and heartbreak in his wake. Dr. Robert Hare ("Without Conscience") says of them, "We often think of psychopaths as the disturbed criminals who capture headlines and crowd the nation's prisons. But not all psychopaths are killers.
Psychopaths are more likely to be men and women you know who move through life with supreme self-confidence -- but without a conscience." Dr. Hare continues to paint the psychopath's picture, ""He will choose you, disarm you with his words, and control you with this presence. He will delight you with his wit. He will smile and deceive you, and he will scare you with his eyes." If eyes are windows to the soul, look into their eyes and you will see only darkness where the soul should reside.
I recently encountered a psychopath, which is why I became interested in the subject. After I witnessed the devastation one individual can create, I felt compelled to understand them. I did not have the advantage of knowing with what I was dealing. When I complete this series of articles, you will be more prepared. Next time, I will give you a checklist of characteristics common to the psychopath. In addition, I will include some hints for more successfully interrogating one. If he or she happens to be of the brilliant and highly educated type -- God help you.

ethereal Wrote:
Apologies for this link if it screws up anyone's eyes after reading it like it's just done with mine!  White letters on black background..........not good, my poor eyes!

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html



ouch - can't read it.

pikajedi4 Wrote:

the guilt comes stems from low self-confidence (yes, I know thats a contradiction) and a small helping of self-loathing and depression.


Sad oh, not much fun Sad

pikajedi4 Wrote:
also, other than the callous disregard bit (unless that includes not giving a hooting *** what people think of you), that actually describes me quite well.


Same exact thing here.  Except for the parts about callous disregard and guilt, I have quite a few similar characteristics....

Although I think some of it may come from being stuck on my own interests/activities to the exclusion of anyone else's... but then if someone gets hurt by my ignorance or apathy, then I feel guilty and tend to apologize.

Looking further, the label really does not describe me at all, I'm quite far from it actually  Cool
My mother married a sociopath. He proceeded to cheat her out of her money and our college funds, tried to manufacture phony money, got caught, waited out the probation, and left. A year later my mom divorced him.

I was the only one in my family who saw through him. He was very "nice"--he knew all the social rules, and everyone in the neighborhood liked him. He would often say, "I'm not a bad guy." If you met him, you would have thought he was a decent sort, a bit of a redneck, maybe, but likable all the same. He was very good at lying, and he knew how to manipulate people's emotions. He usually apologized to me by taking me to McDonald's, which made me feel special.

Because I'm unaffected by social rules, I saw only the logical aspects; and I often caught him in lies that he could have explained away (and did, to my mother) were I not so good at sticking to facts and completely unswayed by emotional arguments. Unfortunately I was also not any good at placating him; so he decided to turn me into his target. I got a lot of physical and verbal attacks over the years; but I survived because I never quite learned to stop fighting back. (I think that children who are not abused from the beginning, who only become targets in later childhood and adolescence, have quite an advantage.)

My stepfather's history is patchy. He describes an abusive childhood in which he was blamed for his fourteen siblings' misdeeds; he was in the Army and in Vietnam and was discharged after a self-inflicted accidental injury. He had spent a year in prison for auto theft and somewhere along the line had a daughter out of wedlock, for which he owed twenty thousand in unpaid child support. One previous wife had died. I do know he was a compulsive gambler (which is where all the money went) and was very involved (but quite unskilled) in remodeling antique cars. He smoked, but told my mother he didn't.

He held jobs for short periods of time--no more than a few weeks or a month. He used to bring home boxes of food from the McDonald's where he was a janitor (he said he was a manager). He falsified his resume to become a car salesman, but lost that job within a week. He also claimed to be going to college for engineering, and became quite enraged when I didn't believe that he was receiving misspelled e-mails from a professor on a computer to which no phone line was attached, nor that he could learn engineering when he couldn't help me with high school algebra, nor that SimCity was really an engineering program. Unfortunately love is blind, and my mother must have loved him quite a lot. Thankfully, many of his scams were exposed when he tried to use a false $20 at a car wash, was caught, and would have been cleared if I had not barricaded myself in my room with the evidence my mother would have destroyed and called the police. The resulting investigation into his past revealed a lot of things that my mother could have known if she had listened to me. Unfortunately, a "bad" child as I was is not a credible source of evidence.

Chosen 1 Wrote:
I wasn't pretending to be stupid.I just seem to have a strange sense of humor.My point was simple. You cannot not tell upon meeting them.
Dogbrain you take things way too serious.I never meant to insinuate that those on the spectrum are like sociopaths.Your answer was good but did not answer the question.


Sorry to intrude, but could try putting 1-2 spaces between your sentences?  That would make your posts easier to read.

Batman55 Wrote:
Sorry to intrude, but could you try putting 1-2 spaces between your sentences?  That would make your posts easier to read.


Correction

It's not like Aspie sociopaths don't exist. There are enough Aspies and enough Sociopaths that the two things have to cross sometimes. An Aspie sociopath might be more dangerous, though, because of the higher dependence on logical reasoning. The lack of logic was part of what kept my stepdad from hurting more people than he did; if he'd thought out his plans beforehand and been methodical about them, he might have ended up causing a great deal more harm.

AS probably results in a higher risk of schizoid personality disorder; but I doubt that any of the others are more likely. SPD is basically the eccentric, unemotional loner type, and a lot of psychologists think that since it usually doesn't cause distress for anyone, it shouldn't really be a personality disorder.

Batman55 Wrote:

WatsonSword Wrote:
If he really is a narcissist, than the only thing he'll do in response to that is blame you for the failure of the marriage. Then he'll try to get you to do more things for him.
Infants believe that because their perspective comes from behind their own eyes, and not from behind anyone else's, that somehow their perspective is central, and that all others are tertiary. This makes them, in their mind, more important than anyone or anything else.

Narcissists are never able to grow out of that.


I would note that very often Aspies have trouble (as well as unwillingness) seeing the perspective of others.

For example, usually I can only show empathy if I have had firsthand experience with something; other than that, I can't put myself in anyone else's shoes.


That's like me too. I have to have gone through an experience to be able to empathise with another person whose going through a similar experience. I can sympathise when other bad things happen but at times, I don't understand why the people are upset.

If we fit any stereotype, it's the 'nerd' stereotype; but since the school shootings, that stereotype has become a little more dangerous, beginning to overlap the 'dangerous loner' stereotype.

Thankfully, I am more in line with 'crazy cat lady'. Smile
Nah, I want to be a loner. I prefer it. But then, I'm a bit the schizoid type, at least according to my MMPI. Smile

My biggest autism symptom isn't actually social interaction, but the insanely strong special interests I have!

Autism is more than just a communication impairment--remember the autism triad? Social interaction, activities/interests, and language. I would take sensory sensitivity out from those subgroups and make it another primary group, for four total basic categories.

(Then I'd stop categorizing autism as Asperger's/HFA/LFA and start categorizing it by primary subtype... there's GAFs for functioning level already.)
And yet there's still only one of you!

Heh.

Stereotypes don't say everything about a person, never can.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Reference URL's